Is yama suss

Quietachiever · #1 29-01-2004, 09:07 PM

hi Breamers
Is anybody else having trouble with the brittle ness of yamamoto 4lb/6lb leader,I have had consistent breakage at the albright/bimini knot, usually after a couple of hours on from a new not.Never happened with S4 or any of the co-polymers that I have always used.Abbrasive strength,it seems second to none but talking to a couple of other anglers/lures they are having the same probs, is anyone else?is it just a monday or friday bach?Dont no!3 lost lures & fish it sux.the last draw was on a cast the other day it just snapped on the albright,Iam loosing confidence in this product is anyone else experiencing this problem.

Bear · #2 29-01-2004, 09:18 PM

Weird mate. I must admit, I don't use the same knots, but I've had no real trouble with the stuff. Jimi and I have given it a hammering on a few occasions and it saved me at least once last weekend. No knot breakages that I could say were unusual yet.

Tim Richards · #3 29-01-2004, 09:27 PM

I use the 6pd Yamatoyo as well, never had a problem until 2 weeks ago at Walpole. Fishing the flats, trying to belt the lures out as far as I could I had 2 breakages at the double uni. The lures just about launched into space, I put it down to trying to throw the lures that damn hard it was putting too much stress on the line. I since changed to an albright as it is a slim knot compared to double uni, therefore less resistance on guides, thought that may have been the problem. I now wonder???

Tim

MATTY · #4 29-01-2004, 09:31 PM

you'll have to stop catching so many horses and give your leader a bit of a rest

agree with the abrasion resistance second to none
don't use 4lb but use 6 & 8,never had 8 let go but had 2 failures on 6lb recently.
both after fairly long sessions with quite a few fish caught with a new leader tied on before session.
one broke on a cast,no catching of tag end or anything like that just cast and lure kept going,2nd time after driving to another spot,only about 15mins,took rod out of back of the car,minus leader and lure it had just fallen off, was ok before i packed it away,not snagged on carpet or anything like that just dropped off,thought it may have been just me but who knows now.
fluoro doesn't like heat so who knows,weird.
apart from that its the best stuff i've used so far

cheers

jimi · #5 29-01-2004, 10:20 PM

Hi QA,
I agree with the others there. Never had too many problems with it. The only times I've had breakages have been if the tag end keeps banging on the guides on casting. Also if I don't lubricate the knot enough before tightening it can break.

I usually use an albright for 8lb and above as it is slimmer than a uni. Theres another one called the no-name knot that is supposed to be good, but probably for heaver leaders (20lb plus) Also, trim the tag ends as short as you can.

It's worth remembering that this is flourocarbon which is different to nylon or copolymer lines like S4, even though it may look the same. Despite the leaps in technology, it still doesn't tie as well as those other lines and you need to put heaps of lubricant (spit) on each knot when you tighten. Also knots where the fluoro is required to do less turns, like the albright (only really one bend for the flouro end), may be better for it.

The benefits of the flouro like abraision resistance and invisibility still outweigh the knot problems IMHO.

Cheers
James.

Quietachiever · #6 30-01-2004, 12:53 AM

Jimi
Lubrication hasn`t been a problem with my nots since I was a Kid!as for uni nots & even 9rap albrites they all work well when used with superlines but surely you dont suggest that they would be stronger than a doulble Bimini to a 9rap albright,because Im only speaking from my own experiences from 4lb fireline on bream to 50lb fireline in landbased gamefishing down here in the great southern to well over 15yrs of boat & land based fishing in the gasgoyne region & I would say the Knots I am using are effectively the strongest knot % wise known to man for fishing with superlines & has been for me until I have changed to yama.The tails on my nots are usually finished with care otherwise my casting performance would be impaired & of coarse Jimi if you look at the quality of my equipment one would expect to feel a bulky not on a `z`hense the term finnesse.My equipment & my knot craftsmanship I asure you is not the problem here.For those people having a similar problem check & see if the leader snaps off perfectly BELOW the Knot.Thats what is happening with mine & I started using Invisi & yama after the Don in November so I`ve given it a go but Ive got to say from a tradesmans point of view from the mechanical maintanence world `It Seems Brittle` after being worked at different angles,weather abrasive qualities are epic or Knot it would be interesting to find out if it is like staino,`nice & wear resistant but after a few bends it becomes whats called `work hardened`& brittle?????????

jimi · #7 30-01-2004, 01:27 AM

Hi QA, sounds like you've done all the right things then.

I guess it's just a property of the line. The only other thing I can think of is do you redo your leader before you go fishing each time? If you used the same leader for lots of trips maybe that would make a difference with it going brittle.

Flouro is supposed to be more brittle than mono, but modern manufacturing processes have helped to some degree. If you really want to see brittle try platyl ghost, that stuff is like glass...

Cheers
James

#8 30-01-2004, 02:00 AM

Although not with yamatoyo, I have found that most leader specific lines are too brittle and stiff for my personal liking.
I actually use "filler" spools of FC instead of leader spools. Filler spools of FC are for use as a main line and are a lot softer and less brittle than leader FC.
It is a compromise, I loose a tiny bit of abrasion resistance, but I gain in knot strength and softness.
The less abrasion is not a hassle for me, as I use 6lb, and I cant see any 6lb lasting against a barnicle encrusted pylon!

Filler spools are also a lot cheaper than Leader spools.
I use Seaguar CarbonPro 6lb, which as far as Im aware is unavailiable in Aus.
Worth looking into for guys who dont like the brittleness and stiffness of Leader FC.

jimi · #9 30-01-2004, 02:07 AM

Good point kingpin. The Razor stuff from Yamatoyo is supposed to be filler material. Maybe give that a try to see if it helps with knots.

#10 30-01-2004, 02:39 AM

BP, I've seen a couple occasions where whole spools of NEW leader material in flouro boke for some "unknown reason".

Once was up atDirk Hartog when Nat Bromhead from Queensland flew in for the trip - and his whole roll of 20lb flouro tippet was useless..

He discovered it was breaking as he tightened the knots, which hadn't ever happened before to him - so he reefed off another length and made another leader and again it broke at the knot - in the end he started "jerk testing" (pulling sharply between two hands) each yard of 20 pound and each piece broke with what could only be desribed as a bout a 5 pound jerk...

We tried to figure out what could have destroyed a whole spool of new leader material - during the trip (this was his usual brand)..

Maybe it was Airport xrays of his luggage?

Maybe it was some sort of vapours comming out of fly tying varnishes that he had packed in his tackle bag etc - who really knows?

All we know - is that the whole spool was useless and he swapped over to something that some one else gave him.

I dismissed it after that, until it happened to me with a whole spool of Harro's special leader material (Hard alloy) - again in 20 pound...the same stuff he uses for his commercial knotted dog leaders etc, igfa tested etc etc

Anyway the whole spool was shot - to this day I never figured out what caused it...I've used it before and since without trouble - but that one spool was just 'brittle' for some reason.

Who knows what the cause is - it does happen and you probably aren't imagining it.

A lot of the flouro line has very tough exterior and some reasonable abraision resistance, BUT (and yes it's a big butt like my missus rear end), once you nick that outside hard casing on the flourocarbon - the inside seems to almost be like soft jelly and have little to no real strength...so frequent changing of leaders is required when fishing for toothy critters like Bream / snapper etc - or when fishing around oysters mussels enrcusted snags etc...

In short - somethings got to the spool of line - whether UV light, or heat or vapors or something and changed it's chemical properties to make it brittle...

Your not the first and won't be the last it's happened too - for example - how do we know it's not something the line is exposed to during shipping or on the tackle shop shelf etc?

Don't write off the brand is my suggestion if it's been good to you in the past - just try a fresh spool from a different supplier and if that lets you down - well then maybe consider changing brands.

I know when I mentioned to harro some time back now about the prolems I was having with Hard alloy - I wasn't the first to have reported it, and he made good with a new spool and a few test leaders of the knotted dog variety etc...

Maybe faulty batches can occurr at manufacturing, who really knows but it does seem to happen pretty easey to flourocarbon, so maybe we need to treat leader aterial made from flourocarbon a little differently to normal mono on how we store it in out tackle boxes etc..

For example - COULD vapours from the plastics used in soft plastics lure manufacture attack the chemical properties of flourocarbon?...or is it thinners vapours evaporating out of the fresh pain on new hard body lures in the heat of a tackle box that is causing the flourocarbon chemocal property breakdown?

A leaky tin of catch scent?, Capt gordons chumline?...

Who knows- one day someone will work it out but till then just dice the spool of faulty line and get a new batch - or better still, give it to someone your fishing a comp against so THEY have all the bustoffs!

Cheers!

Quietachiever · #11 30-01-2004, 07:03 AM

Hi jimi
I`ve actually had it break twice in the one session,so did bundy bear by the sound of things &yes it might be from pinging out so many casts a minute x 5/6hrs but TT if thats poss,the vapours thingo!then I wonder what fuel vapour would do, which every body has a little of.when it comes down to it though how can pull out the old `Z`WITH 4LB fireline & black magic 4lb leader day in & day out,start off with a 1.5mtr leader & replace at 300mm(yes I know 300mm is short)but some days are quiet & you might use the leader for a week,but I always cut my lure off & tye new loop at the start of each session,I spose in short Im saying I probably get 500 /600 casts approx 10 lure changes & a Lotof fish using lefties loop as a terminal knot & on the other hand I`m snapping off at least every sess & twice in one the other day It must be a bad batch!

Steve Brown · #12 14-02-2004, 08:00 AM

Gidday QA, I used some of Niftys 4lb on the flats on the Swan and we both lost fish and the drags were set quite soft. Didn't lose any of lures though on casts but after a few fish were lost I went back to Nitlon 6lb. Fished with Craig S today and he used 4lb Yama and has had no probs. I may try some 6lb but don't trust the 4lb at the moment. I also use bim/alb nicely lubed....not sure mate. Cheers Steve

fooltothabream · #13 14-02-2004, 08:35 AM

I bought a spool of 3kg yamatoya for the donnelly round, never had so much trouble in my life. No abrasion resistance,knots breaking easily etc. I borrowed some other stuff fron Ian Bailey and its still going strong

Purchased some invisiline for the murray comp tommorrow, see how that goes

Traveller · #14 14-02-2004, 11:41 AM

I've been using Yamatoya 6lbs and DFC Nitlon 5lbs for a while.. only had one bust-off on the knots so far....could be just bad knots... I regularly changed my leader and bimini tho....

I'm just starting to use Toray BAWO and Sanyo Metal Lazer, these two are apparently the best fluoro you can get today with really good abrassion resistance, etc., but I don' t think you can buy it in Australia tho.

BTW, as far as I know the Yamatoya Super Harisu is supposed to be a filler leader too..not just the Razor.

Finney · #15 15-02-2004, 06:45 AM

I used the 3 Kg stuff for the first time today. Caught 3 fish and on 2 occassions it snapped whilst I had just got the fish in the boat, so lucky no lures lost.

My problems were at the lure end where I was using a uni with a loop to give the lure a better action. With this type of lure attachment you find the loop needs to be re-opened every so often. I found this a problem with Yamatoya. I have always previously used Stren Magnathin with no problems.

Finney