Multi-Hulls & Extra Stubility

Choppy · #1 30-10-2003, 01:45 AM

I am in the market for a new boat.

I am curious as to anyones experience with mutli hull boats. Websters, whalers etc.

There seems to be a lot of talk about which single hull rides the best and has the best fishing stability.

From my own experience i have never been in a single hull that can ride as smooth as a twin hull, or remain as steady at rest.

Starlings Webster looks to me like it would be the ultimate bream boat yet they don't seem to be popular - am i in a minority here with my opinion or do i have it all wrong.

Everyones thought will be greatly appreciated.

Bear · #2 30-10-2003, 01:58 AM

If you're looking into multi-hulls then have a look at the Stessl Stinger. It won Modern Boatings Power Boat of the Year.

Very impressive craft and not what you're used to. The one in WA is 4.8m with a beam big enough to hold the end of year dance.

Not a bad stability option for on-shore or off-shore.

The thing that impressed me was the price. With live wells, console, 50hp Honda 4-stroke, Min Kota 55lb (to be honest you'd probably have to do to the next size up) and all the deck space was only $22,000.

jimi · #3 30-10-2003, 02:01 AM

Hi Choppy, multihulls will often beat monos in terms of stablity and ride, but there a few things you should keep in mind if buying one.

Multihulls are generally larger and more slab sided, and so are affected by wind a lot more. If you are going to do lots of breaming, you will probably need a large electric.

Also, they need a bigger, specialist trailer and are heavier which will add to the cost and you will need to make sure you have an adequate tow vehicle.

If you are thinking multihull, check out the stessl stinger boat test at http://www.modernboating.com.au they look the goods too.

The websters are also making boats aimed at the bream/bass market that sound great http://www.fishingmonthly.com.au/boa...winfisher.html

I think price is the main reason you don't see more multihulls around the place.

Cheers
James.

Craig_S · #4 30-10-2003, 02:35 AM

Lads, I've seen this boat in the flesh and this is one attractive vessel. If Rhyss had of turned away for just a minute longer I'd have had the ute backed in and been gone.

I've got no idea what it actually goes like but if looks count this would be the bream boat of all time.

jimi · #5 30-10-2003, 02:41 AM

Another one to consider is the kevlacat flycaster. Built along the lines of the Southwind Stealth, but in a cat configuration. These were only just recently released, so I couldn't find much info on the web about them. Found this pic though.

Like all multihulls they are a big boat, so if you fish in any tight water, they will probably not be your best option.

Mim · #6 30-10-2003, 03:44 AM

Hey Rod,

That boat looks real nice. If I smile nicely at Tom or wear my Port Douglas top do you think he will give me one?
LMAO

Have a question though. Why do all these boats have side consoles? Wouldn't they be better off with a centre console for stability? I have seen some guys out with side consoles and they look like they are about to fall in the drink.

Cheers

Mim

#7 30-10-2003, 06:40 AM

Will always be better in a multihull than a monhull.

The drawback is in frontal wave slap area - its much increased in multihulls.

Tunnel sneeze is another consideration.

Water/moisture laden air expelled out the rear of the tunnel under pressure can and does get sucked thru outboards air intakes and can play havoc with life expectancy of some outboards with some cat designs.

Snap/roll is a term devised especially for cats / mutlihulls and describes their 'motion' when drift fishing side on to a sea...as the first sponson passes over a wave and drops off the back side then the next sponson rises - the person standing on deck experiences a sort of "snap then roll' type motion which CAN at times make it dificult to stand and SOME people used to long roll period motion of a deep V monohull, find quite disconcerting.

That said a lot of people quite enjoy drift fishing in cats and find the motion quite easy to cope with.

Another anomaly in cats/multi hulls is cornering - unless you know exactly how to set one up - basically all cats lean Outward when cornering at speed as opposed to monohulls which lean inward into the turn.

Again many boaters not used to this particular handling trait of cats tend to find this behaviour very disconcerting.

If you have a twin OB powered Cat & know how to set the twin outboards up with a cant - the addition of a hysucat type "inverted boomerang type foil" between the sponsons at the longitudinal point of balance of the hull - can actually make it lean into the corner - not to mention ride a lot higher in the water and reduced wetted surface area bye up to 40% giving increased top end speed or fuel reduction savings.

It's a modification quite common these days on high speed commercial cat ferrys although some recreational cats are now also seeing application of the technique with some success.

Starlo swears bye his webster, and it has looked after him well...

One new Multi that to me looks well and truly worthwhile considering is the new 'hound dog' built here in WA on the mid west coast - they are custom hand laid up craft and built to survey standards of layup.

http://www.redbackweb.com.au/hounddog/index.html

These are capable of a lot more than JUST bream fishing in protected waters, and will serve well in nearshore inshore waters use IMHO.

getting back to alloy cats with foils, if you look at tis rear on shot of a US alloy cat you'll see the two fins on the inside of the tunnel at the rear that the sponsons ride on when up on plane and you'll also see the inverted boomerang type foil mounted just forard of midships that lifts the front of the sponsons clear of the water.

This setup (along with the canted Oboards setup) allows the hull to lean 'into' the corner when turning rather than like most cats leaning 'out'.

There would be nothing to stop you having a custom alloy plate cat designed and plasma cut at say 17 ft that could do it all...rivers for bream and ocean as well as flats etc etc...

The new alloy CAD CAM programs mean it's possible now to build boats 'one off' to each customers individual design requirements.

Boating purchase decisions don't HAVE to be a question of this brand versus that brand today. If you really want to theres nothing to stop you having your own Cat / muti hull designed from the ground up just for you.

If it proves a success and others want to build similar hulls from your plans - then I guess you could charge a royalty for each subsequent use of your CAD CAM files and recoup some of the cost of your 'original design' in sisterships manufactured from your custom design files.

At the end of the day it all comes back to what YOU want from a boat and what your prepared to invest/pay to get that exact result.

Theres a LOT of exciting things happeneing in boat design and breamin boats shouldn't be left outta that revolution just because they fish inland protected waters - some of the design improvements are leading edge technology.

Cheers!

#8 30-10-2003, 07:00 AM

At that alloy cat hull - you'll see that the sponsons are whats called 'asymetrical', and the Outboards aren't mounted straight up n down, the powerheads actually lean a little intoward eac other at the top and the skegs at the bottom of the leg are further apart.

What this does in in the staright ahead position they act just like any other power sorce and push the cat straight.

However - once you turn - the cant in the way the outboaards are mounted on the transom vectors the thrust to help impart and inward lean into corners, which no other cat will do!

The inverted Boomerang type foil acts like a wing on an aircraft and makes the cat "bank" (inward) like anb aircraft in a banking turn....thus you have a cat that defys all the rules and leans into corners like a monohull!

Lottsa good ideas out there in the world of boat design...one just has to take a good look around and decide what it is you really want the boat to do, and what your prepared to go thru t get that.

Plenty of guys are building their own too - in order to get such leading edge technology - but save enough sheckles in labor costs that they get ALL the features at similar cost to just buying one ready made off the showroom floor.

Hopefuylly that gives you something to think about.

Sometimes a really good startingpioint is to actually physically start writing a "list" of all the things you'd like the boat to be capable of doing....

It might look lsomething like this

1. Ride dry
2. Launch and retrieve with 1 person
3. Float on a wet Sponge (thanks Craig!)

4. Be Very stable at rest
5. Draw 5 inches to allow flats fishing
6. Have sufficient freeboard for safe inshore use
7. Have a centre console
8. Have livewells
9. Be lightweight to tow
10. Have a T top
11. take twin OBs
12. Have 100 nautical miles fuel range
etc etc etc

All of these are design considerations you approach a designer with, for him to work up some 3d computer models of various hullforms...

Who knows you could end up with a hydrofoil hovercat!!

Of course, good design costs - but you COULD recoup some of those costs by building your own craft once you have the design and plasma cut parts ready to weld.

Hope this gives some ideas, new designed / self built boats aren't for everyone but they ARE where a lot of the new advances in boat design are comming from taking advantage of new technologies.

Cheers!

peter bear · #9 30-10-2003, 07:07 AM

if any one is interested ,read the latest F&B magazine they have a no holds bare story on the new dominator cat and it is very eye opening but at 30 g's fully set up .
1 powerball and i've got 1.
peter.

#10 30-10-2003, 10:52 AM

Obviously you might hafta alter the topsides to make a fishn boat out of it - but the undersides pretty unique!

Cheers!

#11 30-10-2003, 11:26 AM

If you did decide to build or have built a alloy plate multihull from CAD CAM CNC cut plate kit, then this is what the process would start out like (only for a bream boat obviously it would be a lot smaller!)

This ones being built in a guys garage in the USA from a design done in new Zealand and computer files sent over the internet to a Metal Cutting workshop in the USA and the guys building it himself.

Thats what i mean about new technologies - you could have ANY sort of a hull from any designer anywhere in the world, and stilll built it yourself here in oz - just bye doing it on the internet these days.

Flats cats, tunnel hulls, tru hulls - the choices are only as limitless as your budget...

You know a group of talented breamers all with different skills, could build a decent bream boat or two even in a rented workshop / warehouse over the winter months, the odd pizza here n there a few beers, lottsa breamin talk...

It's not that hard...specially if you have time on your hands and can beg borrow or steal a decent mig welder, makita angle grinder...and a big hammer!

Cheers!

Bear · #12 30-10-2003, 11:33 AM

You can actually do the same through One-Steel here in Oz Trouty. I'm a 3D CAD structural designer and have thought about trying it myself.

Choppy · #13 30-10-2003, 04:47 PM

Thanks for all the info guys.

Trouty you definitely are a book of information. The cat that you posted a pick of is very similar to what i have actually gained most of my fishing experience in. My dad has a Cairns Custom Craft Asymetric Hull with hydrfoils. I think he bought it around 1990.

I would be very curious to actually see how much one of those plasma cut kits would cost. I am in steel fabrication so it could be a viable alternative.

I just don't see though how a cat will only draft around 125mm, i would think that 250mm would be good from a cat.

Bear: Whats the next size up Minn Kota electric from the 55lb? And how much do you think it will roughly cost? Then the time old question - do i go cable steer or electric?

To many questions, and it gets worse with too many answers

Brody · #14 30-10-2003, 08:13 PM

Choppy,

i'm pretty sure the next size up is the 65 pounder

thanks, Brody

Bear · #15 30-10-2003, 08:41 PM

Choppy,
In the end, get them to take you out and get a feel for each. There is going to be a big difference in cost from one to the next as you can see.

It hink you'll find the next sizes up are 65 and 72. The wind with something like the Stinger or the Whaler is not so much of an issue, more the size. Interesting that the Stinger is the only Tri Hull mentioned.

Until recently I would have said the std Riptide Kota, but that was until I had a go of the Minn Kota cable steer on Rod's Poly Craft. Really easy to use and has a great foot control. Well worth a look and will be the electric I get for my next boat.

HTH.