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  #1  
Old 22-07-2013, 03:09 AM
SLAZMO
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Bearing slop.

Bearing slop - we've undoubtedly all come in contact with it and some manufacturers are possibly known to be worser than others. This is where the bearing is loose within the body cavity it lives in. I pulled the handle from the reel and used a solid pen (Parker Jotter) inserted it into the drive gear hole and looked at the side to side bias - noted that the shaft did not move within the inner race of the bearing however the outer side of the bearing moved ever so slightly in the body itself (this observed in a completely assembled factory reel).

So the other day when I bought by new Stradic Ci4 4000, I as possibly everyone else that owns a Stradic Ci4 will notice some handle slop - some do and some dont? This slop seems to be the issue of the noise that I am experiencing. Firstly I disassembled - removed the OEM grease & inspected everything - looked good and just as usual as any other Stradic. Reassembled with the good greases & oils and noted that the noise remained on the forward wind. I sat back down - thought about it and noted again the slop in the bearing within the body - noted that there is no horizontal movement within the drive gear when the reel is assembled eg: right amount of shim washers from factory.

The build date of my Ci4 is 07-2012 on the rotor stamp - if anyone cares to know?

Now I have run this past my mate Pete - who's had umpteen years of repairing reels and it seems very unorthodox to him however may prove a fix for those that are experiencing this bearing slop.

Glad wrap

Get the bearing (drive gear) put it into ordinary glad wrap - wrap it and see if it will fit into its home tighter? The glad wrap seems to take up the slack of the bearing size difference and the slot that it fitted into. The glad wrap is LDPE so it shouldn't squash down or wear out as it isn'ta huge slop area but fills the space between bearing and body and just acts as a buffer as such.

When I put the bearing in I trimmed the excess that faced into the inner (inside of the reel) body neatly to the top of the bearing (this with a scalpel & fiskars Ti pinpoint scissors) and left the outside cover that faces to the reel handle screw side (acts as a water shield as such).

Kept the same routine with the left hand side cover - the bearing just dropped out so managed to do the same process. Bearing went in nice and snug - much better than just dropping in as standard.

So the result was - near enough perfect. Nowhere near as much movement in the handle once everything went back together - no tightness or noise.

Pete said that while there is shim paper available - it may not be viable to insert it between the bearing and the body - plus its not as giving and able to conform to the bearing and body shape. The glad wrap can be replaced seasonally and can give a little more water shedding as once it wears through the drive shaft it will act as a extra shield over the bearing.

So I am going to trial this and run it through on my smaller 2500 Ci4... No bearing issues with the FJ's?

Would like to get photo's of the 4000 Ci4 but so couldn't be bothered while doing it - will just wait for all the confused comments first. I will photo document the 25000 Ci4 next week.
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Old 24-07-2013, 01:47 AM
SLAZMO
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Alright this is what I have done - so far so good.

I have read quiet a few times that people are complaining of the slop encountered with the Ci4's - handle slop or whatever people call it? My 2500 Ci4 is much tighter than the 4000 however it still exists? All in all this isnt good - nor should exist...

The first picture is that of the RH side of the Stradic 4000F Ci4 - this bearing fits too loosely into the body slot, a mate of mine said there is about 2 thousandths of a inch slop approx (I dont have digital veneers) - too small for shim paper and not enough for anything else really... Machines that make the bodies may have been out of tolerance or something?

Picture 1 - cut a length of glad wrap larger than the bearing - relative size to be pulled around the circumference of the ball bearing outer race and then tipped so that you can hold onto it.

Picture 2 - this is the glad wrap on the bearing when pulled nice and tight to follow the form of the bearing.

Picture 3 - how it looks prior to installation.

Picture 4 - the bearing once installed into the reels frame - this extra outside material took up the extra space between the bearing and the body. That extra cling wrap is basically gotto be trimmed off - this is shown in Pic 5.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P7235026.jpg (210.6 KB, 297 views)
File Type: jpg Pic 1.JPG (73.4 KB, 292 views)
File Type: jpg Pic 2.JPG (45.0 KB, 292 views)
File Type: jpg Pic 3.JPG (54.4 KB, 293 views)
File Type: jpg Pic 4.jpg (160.2 KB, 294 views)

Last edited by SLAZMO; 24-07-2013 at 01:50 AM.
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Old 24-07-2013, 01:58 AM
SLAZMO
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Picture 5 - basically the same as pic 4 - this is the bearing with the wrap around it and the excess trimmed.

Picture 6 - how the bearing looks on the other side of the reel's body...

Picture 7 - how the bearing looks from the outside of the reel's body...

Last pic - Reel back together.

P.s. Notice the bearing reinforcing from Pic 5 & 6 - seems to suggest that the reel should be used left handed exclusively...

What I did notice that the reels gear meshing is smoother / quieter / and less play forward and rearward. I am thinking of using Sygnet pallet wrap when I can get a little from work - this is far stronger than glad wrap and a little thicker in which I believe that the RH drive bearing can accommodate a little more. I am going to try to speak to Shimano this week about it as I feel that the tolerance 'out of the box' is pretty poor for this reel. It makes what should be a excellent reel just mundane - nothing which my 2008 - 1000 size Saros exhibits even with years of use and wear and tear.

Hope this helps someone...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Pic 5.JPG (104.9 KB, 288 views)
File Type: jpg Pic 6.JPG (121.2 KB, 287 views)
File Type: jpg Pic 7.JPG (119.4 KB, 288 views)
File Type: jpg P7235019.jpg (118.5 KB, 287 views)

Last edited by SLAZMO; 24-07-2013 at 02:58 AM.
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  #4  
Old 24-07-2013, 02:24 AM
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$18.99 For a bottle of Cetaphil !!!! Bargain i say

Great work and photo's. sure it will help a few guys out..
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Old 24-07-2013, 02:27 AM
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Nice!

gonna try this on my many years old saros .. the handle has developed the smallest amount of slop after many fish .. are there many parts that may 'fall off' when disassembling, or is it quite straight forward ? can always take it back to the tackle shop for reassembly anyways
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Old 24-07-2013, 02:30 AM
SLAZMO
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The old Saros prior to X Ship is a easy to service reel - just has the locomotive style shaft oscillation. Match the two arrows up and all should be good - mind you take a picture after the main drive gear comes out and that should help more - I think the arrows were put in a few series after a lot of people sent back bags of bits as they couldn't put em back together.
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Old 24-07-2013, 02:43 AM
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Hey do you think it'd be possible to shim the gap with a section of aluminium from a can, or is the gap too narrow?
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Old 24-07-2013, 02:52 AM
SLAZMO
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The difference between aluminium of a coke can and shim washer made from shim paper is like suggesting it to a size difference that of a grain of sand and a small pebble. Shim washers are ever so fine so fine that a lot of people damage them when they try to pick them up - they arent cheap to replace either.

If you have a set of digital veneers measure a shim washer that is inside a reel and the aluminium of a coke can - its amazing the difference! Measure one - not two as they usually stick together without you noticing...

You can add shim's to the left side of the drive gear to take up slack within the reels body made from wear over time but this is different as its slack from manufacture. This is slack from the bearing size to the accommodation it lives in - its ridiculously fine! But annoyingly noticeable while in use and will only get worse over time!!! Plus I think that aluminium between the stainless bearing and the Ci4 would only exacerbate the wear over time?

Last edited by SLAZMO; 24-07-2013 at 02:55 AM.
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Old 24-07-2013, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLAZMO View Post
The old Saros prior to X Ship is a easy to service reel - just has the locomotive style shaft oscillation. Match the two arrows up and all should be good - mind you take a picture after the main drive gear comes out and that should help more - I think the arrows were put in a few series after a lot of people sent back bags of bits as they couldn't put em back together.
sweedas ... will give it a go, cheers !

EDIT

Is there ONE or TWO bearings for the handle i.e. on the RHS and LHS ? Or did you only cling wrap the bearing on the side you wind your handle on ?
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Last edited by tuan; 24-07-2013 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 24-07-2013, 05:09 AM
bender bender is offline
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some of us senior members have been using glad wrap for years to pack bearings tighter into reel housings... works well

wr also use it as a splash guard for side bearings
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Old 24-07-2013, 05:14 AM
SLAZMO
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So how long do you find it lasting? Any issues or comments with it - I tried looking around and found nothing about it - hence the post.

Like I said I am going to get some pallet wrapping and try that as its slightly thicker / tackier also this may last longer than cling wrap.

Any further ideas or suggestions?
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Old 24-07-2013, 05:18 AM
SLAZMO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuan View Post
Is there ONE or TWO bearings for the handle i.e. on the RHS and LHS ? Or did you only cling wrap the bearing on the side you wind your handle on ?
I haven't done my Saros 1000F with cling wrap over the bearing - yet. However doubt I'll need to as there is such little movement even after 5+ years of use.

If there is movement in either side of the body - bearing moves in the spot it lives in then I would do both - however you need to see if the bearing is worn (by checking the inner race in comparison to the bearing itself - this with a stick / knitting needle that the bearing will fit onto relatively tightly / well) check for bias. That could be one of the issues other than play within the body and the bearing?

Check Boca bearings website how to check for play on bearings - Check that first thats the best bet

Last edited by SLAZMO; 24-07-2013 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 24-07-2013, 05:57 AM
bender bender is offline
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it never wears out as the outer bearing case should be a firm fit into the bearing recess in the reels side cover...

way back we use to use it more on the older daiwas like the GS9 and the BG reels.. you do anything to make something work when you have too and its a good thing when you succeed.

then again - i was up steep point once and some prick actually stole the tongue out of one of my best hiking shoes to make some new leather drag washers...

a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do and if it involves pilfering a mates shoe then there are no limits... oh , but that man should expect to wake up with mulies in his own shoes...
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Old 24-07-2013, 07:17 AM
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that's very well done slazmo, an oldie but a goodie in my book.

you should def get yourself a good set of diggy calipers mate, they are an awesome help

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Old 24-07-2013, 07:23 AM
SLAZMO
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Originally Posted by nagz View Post
that's very well done slazmo, an oldie but a goodie in my book.

you should def get yourself a good set of diggy calipers mate, they are an awesome help

nagz
Thanks Nags.

Waiting for the price to drop at my work - $99 for the digital ones I am eyeing off at the moment. I have some analogue veneers however but try matching up those lines - pfft
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