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  #106  
Old 21-06-2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Bass View Post
I think the whole light weight deal is strarting to get a bit much, I want a reel that has a little bit of weight to it. Feels good in the hand and matches most rods well. The zion material they use to cut down on weight looks really poor painted, I dont see the need for it in a high end reel, looks cheap.

Cheers
Chris
Generally when a rod feels unbalanced it means that its tip heavy if you put a 165 grm or a 230 grm reel on it it will still be tip heavy. So I go with the rod choice first and a well balanced and light feeling rod is important when your casting non stop. And the lighter the reel the better.

Have you seen the reel in the flesh?
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  #107  
Old 21-06-2012, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by stella fella View Post
Riot shields and the windows of Armored Personnel Carriers are made from plastic.
Haha such a valid response hahaha brilliant
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  #108  
Old 21-06-2012, 10:51 PM
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Haha such a valid response hahaha brilliant
Haha yea fair call Id rather metal
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  #109  
Old 21-06-2012, 11:06 PM
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Haha yea fair call Id rather metal
I think shimano should build the next stella from full titanium with SiC bearings. That would keep both you and I happy.
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  #110  
Old 21-06-2012, 11:22 PM
creek bandit creek bandit is offline
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As a daiwa user and fan I think these reels are a bit on the ugly side. But each to there own. Why cant they just make them silver again? The old exist and luvias just look simple and good. I think my white caldia is a bit to bling. And for you boys rippen on old Bobby Bass, just have a close look at him and see the resemlence between him and australias most wanted malcom naden? Did they really catch him? This bloke is pretty pasionate about his sport and his gear and his posts are informative and does not DohDohDohDoh on you if you are on a family budget. Be warned boys when a wild animal is cornered with its hackles up, the DohDohDohDoh can hit the fan. All the best CB
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  #111  
Old 25-06-2012, 06:53 AM
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If anyone is still doing deals on the old model Steez then grab one while you can at a bargain as I heard a whisper that the price will go back up as there's apparently a shortage of them in Australia. Don't know how true it is.....
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  #112  
Old 25-06-2012, 07:05 AM
Ado Ado is offline
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Originally Posted by Luvias_R View Post
If anyone is still doing deals on the old model Steez then grab one while you can at a bargain as I heard a whisper that the price will go back up as there's apparently a shortage of them in Australia. Don't know how true it is.....
I ordered a couple of 2004's today after they informed me they were out of older exists , I was told they have "plenty" so I wouldn't worry. I would say they should receive another shipment at least before the new ones come in, don't forget July is just the announcement, when we see them hit the shelves is another kettle of chips.

Prices won't go back up, if you want a cheap steez wait till the new ones hit Aussie shores, this whole announcement thing is only marketing after all. Imo if you cant haggle one up for less then $550 don't bother, my guess is the final clear out should be around $499.

Last edited by Ado; 25-06-2012 at 07:08 AM.
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  #113  
Old 25-06-2012, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by chrislocke View Post
just a quick question whats the main deifference between magnesium and zaion? is zaion better than magnesium? because for some reason i though magnesium was the best
Zaion is 20% stronger and lighter then magnesium, cheap as chips to produce but Daiwa refuses to pass these manufacturing savings onto us, I fail to see why I should pay MORE then the older model for something that is made out of the same material as a $170 reel.

Last edited by Ado; 25-06-2012 at 07:12 AM.
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  #114  
Old 25-06-2012, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Piscateur View Post
Generally when a rod feels unbalanced it means that its tip heavy if you put a 165 grm or a 230 grm reel on it it will still be tip heavy. So I go with the rod choice first and a well balanced and light feeling rod is important when your casting non stop. And the lighter the reel the better.

Have you seen the reel in the flesh?
Unfortunately we have very different opinions.


Cheers
Chris
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  #115  
Old 25-06-2012, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Bass View Post
Unfortunately we have very different opinions.


Cheers
Chris
No offence meant to piscateur, but there is no escaping the laws of physics. The closer the balance point is to the reel seat, the lighter the reel needed to balance it out. Every thing else is dependant on where you hold the rod, and how big your hands are.
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  #116  
Old 25-06-2012, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Ado View Post
Zaion is 20% stronger and lighter then magnesium, cheap as chips to produce but Daiwa refuses to pass these manufacturing savings onto us, I fail to see why I should pay MORE then the older model for something that is made out of the same material as a $170 reel.
Yeah it is cheaper material to produce but I don't think it's cheaper to make into a actual fishing reel. I think the machining and polishing is harder with Zaion compared to Magnesium. In reality how much cheaper is it in the end? How do we know they aren't passing on those savings? Most likely the more complex internals and stuff like a Mag Seal Rotor and Mag Seal bail roller more than cover it. I'm guessing Mag Seal would be fairly labor intensive and expensive to produce.

I don't think we give Daiwa enough credit. They've gone to a lighter, stronger and corrosion resistant material. Also they have added Mag Seal Rotor and Bail arm roller. Some don't like Mag seal but I don't see why. Maybe because they can't service it themselves but generally they need less servicing! Most on here seem to not like the new look, fair enough don't buy it then if that's what you wanna do.
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  #117  
Old 25-06-2012, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
Yeah it is cheaper material to produce but I don't think it's cheaper to make into a actual fishing reel. I think the machining and polishing is harder with Zaion compared to Magnesium. In reality how much cheaper is it in the end? How do we know they aren't passing on those savings? Most likely the more complex internals and stuff like a Mag Seal Rotor and Mag Seal bail roller more than cover it. I'm guessing Mag Seal would be fairly labor intensive and expensive to produce.

I don't think we give Daiwa enough credit. They've gone to a lighter, stronger and corrosion resistant material. Also they have added Mag Seal Rotor and Bail arm roller. Some don't like Mag seal but I don't see why. Maybe because they can't service it themselves but generally they need less servicing! Most on here seem to not like the new look, fair enough don't buy it then if that's what you wanna do.
spot on
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  #118  
Old 25-06-2012, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by stella fella View Post
No offence meant to piscateur, but there is no escaping the laws of physics. The closer the balance point is to the reel seat, the lighter the reel needed to balance it out. Every thing else is dependant on where you hold the rod, and how big your hands are.
im pretty sure (knowing piscateur) that he is actually going beyond the simple idea of a balanced outfit, ie, rod and reel together, and is referring to the rod itself, which is why he said you need a light and well balanced rod. He didn't say a nice and well balanced outfit.

Logic behind this is, is some rods are naturally unbalanced and tip heavy regardless of what reel you put on. Yes you could put a 400gram reel on to balance the outfit, but the rod itself will always remain poorly balanced. This could be because of a variety of factors like the guides used, amount of epoxy, graphite distribution, grips, etc etc. You can feel a well balanced rod in your hand before it has the reel on it.

Piscateur isnt exactly silly enough to be saying that no matter what reel you put on an unbalanced rod it will always be an unbalanced outfit. Thats completely illogical because you can always add/reduce weight to give it a 50-50 weight distribution according to a certain pivot point on the grips, so its pretty obvious thats not what he was saying.

Feel free to say otherwise piscateur, but thats what I took from you post

Last edited by The G factor; 25-06-2012 at 10:14 AM.
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  #119  
Old 25-06-2012, 01:01 PM
kakaryan kakaryan is offline
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Originally Posted by The G factor View Post
im pretty sure (knowing piscateur) that he is actually going beyond the simple idea of a balanced outfit, ie, rod and reel together, and is referring to the rod itself, which is why he said you need a light and well balanced rod. He didn't say a nice and well balanced outfit.

Logic behind this is, is some rods are naturally unbalanced and tip heavy regardless of what reel you put on. Yes you could put a 400gram reel on to balance the outfit, but the rod itself will always remain poorly balanced. This could be because of a variety of factors like the guides used, amount of epoxy, graphite distribution, grips, etc etc. You can feel a well balanced rod in your hand before it has the reel on it.

Piscateur isnt exactly silly enough to be saying that no matter what reel you put on an unbalanced rod it will always be an unbalanced outfit. Thats completely illogical because you can always add/reduce weight to give it a 50-50 weight distribution according to a certain pivot point on the grips, so its pretty obvious thats not what he was saying.

Feel free to say otherwise piscateur, but thats what I took from you post
x2.......

We should take balance point into account but also balancing torque.

A nice rod would feel good and light on hand no matter what reel you put on and where the balance point is. Those well designed long eging rods seldom have balance point close to grip but still feel good as the balancing torque is small. A tip heavy rod would still feel heavy even if you balance it with a heavy reel to make its balance point on the grip as the balancing torque is large.
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  #120  
Old 25-06-2012, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bobby Bass View Post
Unfortunately we have very different opinions.
Cheers
Chris

Nothing Unfortunate about that champ, Fishing is like that. Would never begrudge anyone from a fishing opinion as we constantly get thrown curve balls that blow our previous theories out the door. As I said earlier looks are subjective and I will reserve judgement until I see it in the flesh. Having said that looks would not be a decisive factor in my puchase (we are not comparing Pink Micras here). I like the magsealed roller bearing and the air rotor and the weight savings. But am reserved over the change in body material.
You provide plenty of good info and help on this site so keep it up, my comments were my opinion and absolutely no offence was intended.



Quote:
Originally Posted by stella fella View Post
No offence meant to piscateur, but there is no escaping the laws of physics. The closer the balance point is to the reel seat, the lighter the reel needed to balance it out. Every thing else is dependant on where you hold the rod, and how big your hands are.
No offence taken or should be taken here mate. I could have explained myself better, instead of being lazy and relying on other to fill in the gaps thanks G.
There are two areas to address here.

Firstly, and is exactly what G elaborated, I use a Parkinsons retrieve for alot of my HB and SP fishing. A rod with the weight distribution wrong fatigues your arm much quicker. Take any one of the rods mentioned in the paragraph below and compare it with a GLX SR 842-2, with or without reel, do the parkinsons shimmy ie try to move the rod tip back and forth about 4 quickly until your arm tires. You will find you tire way quicker using any of the others and you probably tire the quickest with the lightest rod there.
There are other factors in play here as well but that's another essay all to do with slow/fast action.

Secondly try this at home, Hopefully you have one of these at your disposal Kirasame, Battler Limited Devel, Nitro 1-3kg 7 foot, all tip heavy rods. now put any high end finesse reel on them and hold it where you normally hold the rod. You will still find it tip heavy it may balance out with a 280-300 grm reel but that takes away the finess feel. I do understand the laws of physics (at an extremely basic level), but all I was trying to say albeit in as little words as possible was that, the position of the reel makes the differences of "finesse" reels weights, less influential in the balance of the outfit. A balanced outfit is not the be all and end all as most of the fishing I do is with the rod tip pointing down anyways.
This is not to say these rods are no good, I have the Devel and the nitro and believe they are awesome rods for various applications, Just didn't go the kirasame as it was too expensive. (Devel was bought second hand)


Quote:
Originally Posted by kakaryan View Post
x2.......
We should take balance point into account but also balancing torque.
A nice rod would feel good and light on hand no matter what reel you put on and where the balance point is. Those well designed long eging rods seldom have balance point close to grip but still feel good as the balancing torque is small. A tip heavy rod would still feel heavy even if you balance it with a heavy reel to make its balance point on the grip as the balancing torque is large.
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by The G factor View Post
im pretty sure (knowing piscateur) that he is actually going beyond the simple idea of a balanced outfit, ie, rod and reel together, and is referring to the rod itself, which is why he said you need a light and well balanced rod. He didn't say a nice and well balanced outfit.

Logic behind this is, is some rods are naturally unbalanced and tip heavy regardless of what reel you put on. Yes you could put a 400gram reel on to balance the outfit, but the rod itself will always remain poorly balanced. This could be because of a variety of factors like the guides used, amount of epoxy, graphite distribution, grips, etc etc. You can feel a well balanced rod in your hand before it has the reel on it.

Piscateur isnt exactly silly enough to be saying that no matter what reel you put on an unbalanced rod it will always be an unbalanced outfit. Thats completely illogical because you can always add/reduce weight to give it a 50-50 weight distribution according to a certain pivot point on the grips, so its pretty obvious thats not what he was saying.

Feel free to say otherwise piscateur, but thats what I took from you post

Thanks G man, Exactly what I was saying but in a more eloquent, succint and comprehensible delivery.

Again the above is just my opinion based on my experiences. It does not diminish any other opposing opinion. Just an opinion that I choose to share be it right or wrong. You never learn anything from being right all the time. I'm on here for the learning.

Geez that took a while, RSI on both index fingers now thanks.
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