hornet vs mono

[craig scott]

hi breamers (and all fishos) . I have a Clark 4.1, its a lovely, tough dinghy, I've overpowered it with a yam40, and now wish to get a bigger tub to match up a bit better. I mainly fish inshore in Geographe bay and twice a year I go to Walpole (sorry, should be spelt h.e.a.v.e.n) to embarass myself imitating a bream lurer. I'm looking at two boats. The latest eclipse 435 std hornet, or the445 dory (mono hull). Can anyone give me some first hand feedback on how the two will compare and/or contrast. Being a mono hull user for all my boating life I know roughy what to expect from the dory (father had a scorpion +40ev), but the look of that hornet is real impressive. I'm stuck, I'll admit I'm leaning toward the hornet, but I dont feel like regretting the choice because of a sexy underside . Thanks guys and gulls.

[DAWS]

Craig
I have a 4.5 metre reef and is great all round boat for easturies and ocean.I have heard that the hornets can get a little wet when the wave's get up. If your not sure get the dealer to take you for a test run in both then make up your mind.

Daws

[Bream Master]

Talk to the guys at Millard Marine Craig. They have the Quintrex franchise in the South West and sell heaps of hornets. I'm just in the process of decking out a 435 standard for bream fishing through them.

I've been using a v-hull for a couple of years now, and the ride in a chop is very good. With that being said, the small size of the hulls we are using means that any of them are wet in a slop unless you are heading straight into the swell.

The smallest angle to either the swell or the wind unfortunately has the boat throwing spray over the front even in a v hull. The fact that we quite often have weight in the front end (live wells, batteries, electric motors etc.) means the bow digs in a little more. This results in spray being pushed up and as soon as the wind gets hold of it, it usually lands in your lap.

The extra stability of a hornet would be enough for for me to look at one of them over a v-hull.

Warren.

Inshore Geograph bay is where you do the bulk of your fishing, so likely you should select the hull you think will most suitably handle the conditions you encounter there - and make the best of the hull you select on the twice a year forays to Walpole?

Do you think the Hornet is a suitable craft for inshore Geo Bay?

No doubt the water there is to an extent protected any breeze with any SE, S or SW in it is effectively "offshore so conditions are often pretty darn good - but conversely any breeze with any north in it kinda cuts Geo bay to ribbons pretty quick...in which case the low freeboard on the Hornet may limit a fair bit the number of days you can fish Geo bay (comfotably without getting wet from spray/slop over the side) or more particular;ly the length of tiume you can stay out before it gets too uncomfortable to come home.

How far out in Geo Bay do you all inshore?...is it the 3 or 4 miles where no Radio / Epirb are required or further out?

If you venture to places like wright bank on a nice day then probably something with more freeboard might be a better option?

Interestingly, for as nice and protected as Geo Bay is - the Dept Transport Marine div, don't class it as a"protected waters" like some other places (Roebuck Bay Broome) due to the influence of any northerly breezes on Geo bay.

For this reason, they WONT survey a Hornet to conduct any fishing tours on Geo Bay. This means that effectively they don't consider the vessel safe enough for the protection of paying passengers in those waters.

I guess the logical question that then arises is - do you consider the vessel to be safe enough for yourself, family and fishing buddys in those same waters.

Lets face it - theres hundreds (thousands?) of small tinnys ply Geo Bay almost every day of the year, and few come to real grief, compared to the numbers out there.

It can be some of the nicest safest smoothest waters you'll find anywhere in WA which is part of it's attraction, to the legions of retirees who fish outta these tinnnys for king george whiting, crabs et al.

The Hornet will work there fine and catch you a lotta fish, only YOU can decide what expectations you will have from a hull, and whether a Hornet would suffice for your needs.

Whilst I have a 16 ft vessel of similar size to a Hornet and have fished Geo Bay in it in the past before it was put into inland waters survey, I wouldn't selct a Hornet as my preferred hull to fish Geo Bay frequently, but if it was all thatI had available to me I'd fish it hard any day I could.

Have you considered maybe - selling trading the whole 4.1 & 40 Yam for a "package" that might open up more fishing opportunities to you in Geo Bay and close environs?

Theres so many good local boats about now - it's a hard choice as to what will most meet the needs...of course - you need to keep in mind the bream requirements for rivers etc so not go too big as to draught too much, or too long as to be unmaneouverable.

Up most rivers etc - extra freeboards not a real hassel - usually if the winds that strong that freeboard is making the boat hard to maneouver in the wind - then you'd be so wet n a low gfreeboard boat that you'd give the fishing away anyway and head for camp IMHO.

Best a luck with it - be interesting to see which way you eventually go with it. I've seen the odd "custom ali boat" built in Busso - that would REALLY suit those waters....have you had a look around locally to see what gets built in your own backyard?

I recall seeing one Fisheries had built there not long back that was really sweet.

As an aside - I also saw a derelct Glass Glastron tri hull sitting in the alloy welders yard in the light industrial area that would make a FANTASTIC project boat for a river / bass / bream boat...for anyone handy with wood and glass.

Done right it'd come up every bit like this US Bass sistership hull attached...(of Tony Waltons in WA...which could also be on the market at the moment I'm lead to believe).

Something picked up cheap like & rejuvenated, would make a great River bream boat and leave you to maybe get something a little bigger better for Geo bay......as a suggestion!

Just a couple thoughts.

Cheers!

The Glastrons were a hugely popular hull in the US for skiing and bass fishing particularly, a long while back now.

Apparently a few were made somewhere in Sydney under license to the parent co in Florida.

They basically have a similar underwater shape to the hornet (almost identical) and are more of a gull wing design than a tri hull as I described it above.

Perghpas the most famous Glastron gull wing, was that one filmed in the James Bond Movie Live and Let Die, with the infamous boat chase scene.

Apparently - some 24 Glastron hulls were totalled in the filming of the chase scene...

If nothing else - that Glaston in the Busselton Light Industrial area has a heritage that suggests it deserves a better fait than to rot away from the inside out sitting unused in someones yard!

Boss Hogg- "Enis - who IS that man?"
Enis - "I Think He's some Kinda Secret Agent"
Boss Hogg - "Secret Agent?....on WHO'S side!!!!"

Cheers!

[nifty]

Hi Craig, when we lived in Busso a couple of years ago I did a test drive in the 4.35 Hornet on the usual Busselton chop, went really great mate, you pay for the Quinnie remember !! Plenty of other good stuff out there, look around, when that chop comes up in Geo. Bay you need a good handling hull, I came unstuck about 3 years ago and had a 5 hour swim before I was rescued just at the entrance to the channel so I have first hand experience at how Geo. bay can change, I have fished there for years, 4 times a week whilst living there, so don't scrimp on hull design, the hornet is a great hull.... Neville

[dantheman]

here it is

[Bream Master]

I enquired about that old hull about 12 months ago Shann, I was told it was an old pride hull. The guy works up north and is going to use it for crabbing. On closer inspection it needs quite a bit of work due to the rotting wood etc.

Another factor about geographe bay is the short chop its gets when the wind blows. I've been caught a few times coming back in from a mornings KG fishing. The V-hulls tend to have a more pronounced keel on them (3" on my current stacer) and it does dig in from time to time when you're trying to cross the swell at an angle.

Go with what you think you will use more often. If you'll do more offshore fishing then the v hull will get you out a bit further. The v-hull may be a little cheaper too.

Warren.

Great minds think alike as the saying goes, eh?

I also looked in and asked about the hull - maybe it was "Pride" who made the Galstrons under license here, must have been a long time back - probably late 60's very early 70's.

Acouple years back, TonyWalton had just bought his from a Texan working in Perth who brought it out with him fully rigged in bowrider style for bass fishing, and tony called in home here to show it to me in passing.

I was very impressed with it (obviously still am).

I'm sure the one in Busso is the same hull - but couldn't find any identifying brand badges etc.

I tracked down a pic of the underside on the web at the old Classic Glastron site. Viz attached (Right Hand side pic).
They call it the Aqualift 11 version (and we all think Hornets are new technology! ).

As a project, to rip out the rotted stringers, fit new ones, and likely replace the timber transom, plus new floor it would be a biggee unless you have access to a good timber workshop (which I just happen to have) and know how to do it - as well as some skill in fibreglassing.

I did consider that - if the guy wants to keep it, it would be a really neat hull to just tip upside down and flop a mould off, to make "new" glass bream boats from!

Like all things - you'd need enough folks to want a cheap new bream hull, to make it fiscally viable to build the new mould not to mention - the owners "permission" to "borrow" the derelect hull for that purpose for a month.

Also settling on a decent layout that everyone agreed to, to make the cap/liner mould up, so it had all the necessary rod storage, livewells etc would be a consideration as well.

With the popularity of the bream tounaments rounds tho I see potential for a new lease of life for the classic Glastrons..

Another consideration - would be to take a mould from the old hull - and use it to rotomould the same design in these new rotomoulded polyethylene hulls for production speed and cheapness.

I just love the shape of them....sad to see em rotting away in the weather IMHO.

Maybe theres a future for em yet, who knows.

Anyone else besides me think they look neat?

Cheers!

[craig scott]

Thanks to all who took the time to scribe, its great to bring up the forum site and see that theres been some action. I perhaps wasnt too forthcoming in the whole scene and will attempt to fix. When I fish in the bay I fish close inshore, perhaps no more than 2 mile, and I'd never go out into a sea breeze, always would I surf home with it. I omitted also that I spend a fair deal of time out a bit wider with my old man in his 6mtr longboat. So the ultimate scene of me pounding short chop with a savage brisk cross wind is not the case in my little dinghy dilemma. I like the calm picture of a nice berley trail out the front of the Capel cut at about 6 am before the weather is awake. Thats what I mean by inshore and now realise I could have been a bit more specific, sorry. I love the idea of all that stability, of not having to jump sideways across the seat every time one of my kids decides to race across the opposite side of the boat the scoop another piece of surface weed with the landing net as we idle along. The only time I attempt to punch straight into a chop is at Walpole in the arvee to catch the sunset bite. Thanks again to all the replies , I'll inform the jury as to what transpires. Bye. Craigio.

[grunter]

Hi Fingerling,
" If he is still wondering, he obviously hasn't been in a Hornet", thats the sound over my shoulder as I read your thread, and I would have to agree.
About 9 months ago my fishing mate purchased a 435 Hornet with a 40 Merc on the back, untill then I had never seen one. I had concerns about wether it would even float. After my first voyage in it I can sum up that ugly hull in one word, brilliant.
The eclipse bow is great in small chop, giving a dry-ish comfortable ride. We had both of us on the casting platform, in the fuel rack and at times hanging over the same side landing fish, that is about 230kg combined,very stable. At speed it corners like "it's on rails". Brilliant fishing platform, untill I had to get back into a 'V' hull. Now, I intend to trade the old Brooker in on one.

Good luck with your decision,
Grunter.

That makes it a lot clearer Scott, if you have access to a longboat for further offshore trips already, then you don't need anything with the taller freeboard.

I've spent a few weeks puddling around in one of the early model Hornets 14 ft, with the tunnels that only go half way back along the hull. One of the Cray Fishers at the Abrolhos has one, and over the 5 or 6 times I've been up there I've racked up a few days in it in various conditions.

They are stable and soft riding & 99% of the time dry as well.

Only time I copped a soaking was when a strong "Easterly" showed up "unexpectedly" (which 50 mile offshore at the Abrolhos islands they can do surprisingly quickly). After 50 miles travelling over open ocean an easterly (which near the shore can be flat calm) out at the islands, can make a very short period / steep sided chop...quite tall.

With two of us, in the 14 ft Hornet, me up front and Nat down the back - he took off and the bow buried into the next chop wave before we got on plane, drenching me from lower back / waiste down.

Bye the time we got back to the islands, at speed - the wind chill on my wet lower back and bouncing over the chop, gave me a heck of a sore back for some days.

Admittedly that was the only time I've had any negative impressions of the hornet...all the other occasions we used it - we caught fish, stayed dry and had a great time in it.

I guess the point is - they are great stable and mostly dry boats but you can still get wet in one.

For the type of use you describe in Geo Bay tho - could there be a better suited boat?

Cheers!

[craig scott]

I truly appreciate your endeavours to ensure I spread my options on this one Trouty. To clarify even further, I might add that the 4.1 that I currently use is enough boat for the type of water I encounter, but not enough for the motor.So I figure that even if ultimately in fairly sloppy conditions the V maybe(or other hulls) the better choice, all the 435 has to match is the performance of what I currently have. And from what Grunter has to say, it seems capable . I've measured the freeboard, as a matter of interest, of the latest 435 and the sides are identical in height above waterline as the 445 I mentioned before, so maybe the hornets have evolved a bit since your foray out beyond abrolhos. Thanks once again for the experience guys and thanks to Breammaster for this outlet to idulge in. Bye.

is deciding what one to get next!

it's apleasureto try n help out - maybe others who just "read along" will learn something or pick up an idea along the way..which is why I enjoy trying to help.

From the sound of it, you just need enough hull for the motor and are trying to decide between v hull & gull wing / tri.

In basic terms, if ou want stability at rest (for stand up casting) then the tri/gullwing style (435 hornet) with it's blockline water stability will be the go.

If you wanted Ride in chop, then the more V the better...and the dory is the go.

Each has it's key strengths and weaknesses and each is the opposite off the other.

When you talk in boat design terms, the term that is used to describe the essential difference between the dory and hornet hull, is something called metacentric height, or the hulls righting lever (which we laymen refer to as it's stability).

This is a very interesting subject of your "into" boats handling / ride characteristics and as a skipper of a vessel you need to be aware of your own vessels Metacentres effect upon it's bouyancy characteristics as these alter with the addition of extra weight/load.

Theres plenty of web resources on vessel metacentric height for anyone keen enough to do a search. Heres one such link below.
Vessel metacentric height link HERE

Even a deep V bottom vessel can achieve similar blockline water stability at rest as a hornet style tri/gullwing hull. The Bar crusher offshore vessele are a good example of an attempt to get the best of both worlds where they flood the underfloor at rest for stability - and drain the underefloor while underway for deep V ride while underway!

Theres so many different attempts bye vessel designers to "get the most" out of vessels in as far as "making the most" of the various concepts / principals to get the most out of a hull.

It's a question of understanding what you want at the outset and that just takes a little research, and a few test rides to ensure your getting what you think you will be getting.

Best of luck with it...be sure n post up a photo of what you eventually get.

Cheers!

[craig scott]

Trouty your a mine of knowledge. You were very accurate in your opener of your last post, most the fun is in the chase, if only there was an open cheque book, I could then try ALL of 'em! You do have me intrigued though , I would very much like your personal choice on what you might select if it were you, as you reminded me there are many options out there. Lastly, if the money was no issue then I would dearly love one of those Boston Whaler 150Sport babies, how nice. Bye.