My thoughts on SAS Braid

[nagz]

Originally Posted by redfinfisho

Nags you don't get to call a line sh!t haha you like FINS

Joking

Im surprised you even tried it Ross Quality PE all the way

Pfft lol i love the stuff mate

Starting to use a bit more sufix 832 now as well though lol

[gozz]

Some time's it's difficult to deny that it's not the line when u tie knot after knot and it keeps snapping but then u rip off a heap of line and the knot is good again.
This happens to me with fireline exceed which is a awesome line when it behaves but unfortunately it seems to weaken a bit to easily.
I've been using power pro for about 12mths now and I am pretty impressed how thin and strong this stuff is for a cheep braid.

[Alex]

There are certain aspects of fishing when you may want to compromise- be it lures, rods or reels.
You can use cheaper Atomic lure instead of more expensive Megabass or OSP and still catch a fish. Or use Daiwa Gekka or Freams reel instead of a Exist or a Stella and still catch a fish.
Two things the one should not compromise are hooks and line / leader.
It is almost a rule to replace factory fitted trebles if they are of known inferior quality (chubbys anyone?). Same with jig heads: nobody uses a jig head if they know they are no good.
The same but ten times more important is the line.
This is where the one should NOT compromise. The line connects us with the fish (all other things considered). So why buy cheap and poor quality stuff when you can get much better braid/leader for not much more dollars?
These days we are spoilt for choice and the variety of lines on the market is just mind blowing (check Rakuten or others web based sites).
I'd like to be able to support a local manufacturer but to me quality of line is paramount. So my vote goes to Unitika, Varivas, Sunline PowerPro before I look at SAS and similar, sorry.
But this is just my opinion.
Knowing the OP personally and his ability to fish fairly well, I am sure he is capable of line management and knots tying and I trust his opinion.
Perhaps guys at SAS need to look at better quality control (other than feeding the braid between fingers) hence the better product and then I may change my view
Cheers,

[nagz]

Very well written alex

Cheers mate

I was feeling sorry for those poor japanese folks running all that line through their fingers in their braid factories, then i figured they probably had a better way of doing things

[Breamingwithjoy]

Originally Posted by Cortinaboy

BWJ, I'm not sure how you (or anyone) can tell that the mainline broke a couple of inches above the knot. Can you explain how you can know that given there is no point of reference to measure from (you've only got mainline left, unless you got the lure back with the short bit of line plus leader and knots on it - but it sounds like that isn't the case if you lost the lures)?

I know reading comprehension is not taught in schools as well as it should be but here goes.... I was having line failure when tightening knots prior to actually casting any lures. When tightening the knot the braid was breaking at points other than the few inches in and around the knot.

That and yes, I could still see about a foot of braid attached to the leader of one of the surface lures I lost. Which says to me that the knot held and the braid just broke. It also says to me that my knots are pretty up to scratch.

I have no reason to stretch the truth on this, so I am bemused that you would question my account of what happened.

Any other questions while I am here?

[Piscateur]

Originally Posted by Plasman

Is it standard practice to try and intimidate or antagonize anyone who has anything positive to say whilst taking them out of context assuming their experience? I thought people were sharing experiences led by the original post which did have really good detail around where the issue was for them which was not going to be solved on the water.
Basic problem solving requires quite a lot of detail to get to the root cause. Unfortunately a couple posts here have had a lack of problem solving through frustration and I'm sure as bream fishos, we are all exceptional problem solvers.
Everything happens for a reason.

If you are referring to me about being intimidating, antagonistic, and taking things out of context, then please have a read of the Original Post. In fact Ive made it a little easier for you too see extract below. Amongst other issues, the 6lb braid is breaking even when he is tightening the knot with 4 lb leader material. The out of context replies of "Tall poppy syndrome, line management, other issues apart from the line's fault, and improve your knots" is clearly not BMJ issue here!

Also, please inform how you have provided a solution?

I didn't not offer a solution because I'm not a line manufacturer and will not propose to tell SAS how to suck eggs!
Furthermore I rather believe in the intelligence of the posters on here than to doubt their line management skills, as Nags quite correctly points out people don't just loose their ability to fish, manage line or tie knots suddenly.
I have no issues with people defending a product but offer some real insight. If it was a bad batch then yes that a valid explanantion. But not any of the above that I quoted as they are clearly not what caused the breakages that BWJ experienced.

Originally Posted by Breamingwithjoy

For the braid to break in your hands while tightening a knot to 4lb leader is a joke. Steer clear of this stuff unless you feel like donating some lures to the fish gods.

I agree with Alex in never compromising with Line. My fishing time is precious with work and a young family, I used to use Super PE. never had breakage issues but the stuff windknots easily. Of the stuff I have used I can recommend Unitika Aorika, Toray Seabass Power game, and the best of the lot is Dragoncall 8 Carrier.

Yutryn has stated that it may have been a bad batch and had taken the time with an honest explanation of what could possibly go wrong, and you cant fault his customer service. Kudos!

[Breamingwithjoy]

The comment about it breaking in my hands was included in the original post. Again, reading comprehension.

[Cortinaboy]

Originally Posted by Breamingwithjoy

The comment about it breaking in my hands was included in the original post. Again, reading comprehension.

yep, you're right. Posts deleted. Apologies for going in that hard. I don't agree with your approach on this at all, and you more than anyone should know the damage this sort of post from a prominent poster could do to a small company on the basis of your experience with one spool, but I should have read the wording of your posts more carefully and seen the reference to the line breaking in your hands earlier. Apologies for the oversight there.

[Breamingwithjoy]

On the point raised about making this failure public on BM. The discussion regarding this line has been alive for much longer than this thread. If the SAS guys and their associated "field staff" want to use BM to promote their products surely their criticism can be expected to come through the same channels?

Why should I have to take my time to assist these guys with their product development? It's not like I am buying into some beta testing program here. This is a retailed product standing alongside others in a global market place. If they fall short of my expectations (which it has) surely I can not be chastised for making that disappointment known to the wider fishing community.

I am not sure what your issue with my feedback is. I didn't like the line. It broke when I expected it not too. It cost me lures and fish which is, in my mind, unacceptable. I have fished with other braids that are designed to break at or below their stated breaking strains and have never faced such monumental issues. I expected more and I would think that most anglers in my position would have similar levels of disappointment.

As always, I am happy the restate anything if it is not clear.

[Cortinaboy]

the problem is that on the basis of your experience with one spool of line, you make statements like:

"It’s crap."

"Steer clear of this stuff unless you feel like donating some lures to the fish gods." and

"I have used braids from almost all major companies in the past and this by far was the most disappointing."

Then you (later) acknowledge that:

I have reviewed/tested lots of different lines back in the days and not all were amazing. I know that there can be bad batches of line. I have had mates who have had it with Super PE and even some of the dearer jap braids like Gosen, Unitika and Linesystems."

Are you dumping on those too?

and then you say:

"I know it may have been a bad batch or some sort of QA issue along the way but that doesn't get me my lures (or bass) back."

So you know already that it might just be unfortunate that you've copped a dodgy batch, which happens to all brands, yet that's not enough to give you pause to stop and think before blasting the product on the main bream forum where you are a main contributor. This sort of 'review' is potentially very damaging to small company that relies on word of mouth and no doubts wants to address any problems it can before its reputation is shot. Sounds like a rep from the company has already mentioned caveats to where and when they recommend this strength line should be used. They also mentioned some previous issues that they were able to address once brought to their attention. It certainly sounds like they are willing to replace or refund so their response to your experience would have been useful. I would have thought it might have been better to contact the company, get another spool off them and and least try a second batch before starting a whole new thread (not adding to a previous discussion as you suggest) to shout from the rooftop that this line is crap. If you believe a counter view is needed to balance a debate that you feel is one sided, then add to the existing threads.

[cod_botherer]

Originally Posted by Cortinaboy

the problem is that on the basis of your experience with one spool of line, you make statements like:

"It’s crap."

"Steer clear of this stuff unless you feel like donating some lures to the fish gods." and

"I have used braids from almost all major companies in the past and this by far was the most disappointing."

Then you (later) acknowledge that:

I have reviewed/tested lots of different lines back in the days and not all were amazing. I know that there can be bad batches of line. I have had mates who have had it with Super PE and even some of the dearer jap braids like Gosen, Unitika and Linesystems."

Are you dumping on those too?

and then you say:

"I know it may have been a bad batch or some sort of QA issue along the way but that doesn't get me my lures (or bass) back."

So you know already that it might just be unfortunate that you've copped a dodgy batch, which happens to all brands, yet that's not enough to give you pause to stop and think before blasting the product on the main bream forum where you are a main contributor.


This sort of thing on a main bream forum is potentially very damaging to small company that relies on word of mouth and no doubts wants to address to any problems before its reputation is shot. Sounds like a rep from the company has already mentioned caveats to where and when they recommend this strength line should be used. They also mention some previous issues that they were able to address once brought to their attention. I would have thought it might have been better to contact the company, get another spool off them and and least try a second batch before starting a whole new thread (not adding to a previous discussion as you suggest) to shout from the rooftop that this line is useless. if you want to contribute a counter view to a debate that you feel is one sided, then add to the existing threads.

A thread about the poor quality was bound to happen. Have a look at how many people have had negative experiences with this braid. Good on bwj for being the first person to post about.

[Breamingwithjoy]

Originally Posted by Cortinaboy

the problem is that on the basis of your experience with one spool of line, you make statements like:

"It’s crap."

"Steer clear of this stuff unless you feel like donating some lures to the fish gods." and

"I have used braids from almost all major companies in the past and this by far was the most disappointing."

Then you (later) acknowledge that:

I have reviewed/tested lots of different lines back in the days and not all were amazing. I know that there can be bad batches of line. I have had mates who have had it with Super PE and even some of the dearer jap braids like Gosen, Unitika and Linesystems."

Are you dumping on those too?

and then you say:

"I know it may have been a bad batch or some sort of QA issue along the way but that doesn't get me my lures (or bass) back."

So you know already that it might just be unfortunate that you've copped a dodgy batch, which happens to all brands, yet that's not enough to give you pause to stop and think before blasting the product on the main bream forum where you are a main contributor. This sort of 'review' is potentially very damaging to small company that relies on word of mouth and no doubts wants to address any problems it can before its reputation is shot. Sounds like a rep from the company has already mentioned caveats to where and when they recommend this strength line should be used. They also mentioned some previous issues that they were able to address once brought to their attention. It certainly sounds like they are willing to replace or refund so their response to your experience would have been useful. I would have thought it might have been better to contact the company, get another spool off them and and least try a second batch before starting a whole new thread (not adding to a previous discussion as you suggest) to shout from the rooftop that this line is crap. If you believe a counter view is needed to balance a debate that you feel is one sided, then add to the existing threads.

I dump on lines proportionate to their crapness. I can only do so on lines that I have personally used which is why I didn't comment on my friend's experiences as it is not first hand feedback. It's up to them to tell their tales.

To be fully disclosed the lines that I have not liked are:
Fireline - It was too stiff initially and held coils in the line after casting. It meant when fishing lighter lures my connection was not as direct as I like. Never broke on me though.
Nanofil - Was hard to get a good connection with the leader as I found the line would slip through the knot (possibly it has a low coefficient of friction that other lines). Didn't break though.
Fins - I found it very thick in the lower breaking strains and found that colour holding was not great. Didn't break though.

I have spoken about these issues on here in the past and am happy to do so in more detail here if you would like. I think all of the issues I had were bad enough for me to look at other alternatives and speak my mind if the opportunity to add my opinion presented itself.

Not sure why I would hijack another person's thread to give my opinion when most have been started by people wanting to give their own feedback.

I get that this may well be damaging to the guys at SAS and I feel bad about that which is why I was empathetic to their excuses of bad batches. Personally I have not had a bad batch before so my expectation is that lines available for purchase should live up to their intended purpose.

Whilst high rolling players such as myself can afford to try out new lines willynilly most guys can't and rely on feedback presented on forums like BM to shape their purchases. If we are only allowed to post praise in public and keep our criticisms between us and the manufacturers then all products no matter how poor will present in a similar light.

If 6lb line breaks well below that breaking strain then I rate it as CRAP. There may be a reason why it is crap but that is not for me to comment on and it seems that the SAS guys have done that job very well.

As a man of reason, you should know that results should be made available whether they are popular or not.

[Cortinaboy]

Really? "Personally I have not had a bad batch before so my expectation is that lines available for purchase should live up to their intended purpose."

Jeez, get over yourself mate. You sound like you're reviewing a BMW. You can mount a straw man argument and make out I'm trying to stifle your free speech (spare me), but you know there can be dodgy batches of all lines - you've said so yourself and you have heard first hand from your mates.

Fair enough to say you copped a dodgy one, no argument there, and fair enough to talk about your experiences, including this one. In my opinion though, its pretty poor for someone seen (and presenting themselves) as an expert, with experience in the industry, to completely can the brand on the basis of one spool without bothering to contact the company or trying a second batch.

Its the absoluteness of your conclusions I object to (because it may unfairly damage the SAS brand), not your right to describe your experience.

[Breamingwithjoy]

Ok. Thanks for your input.

[Plasman]

Originally Posted by Piscateur

If you are referring to me about being intimidating, antagonistic, and taking things out of context, then please have a read of the Original Post. In fact Ive made it a little easier for you too see extract below. Amongst other issues, the 6lb braid is breaking even when he is tightening the knot with 4 lb leader material. The out of context replies of "Tall poppy syndrome, line management, other issues apart from the line's fault, and improve your knots" is clearly not BMJ issue here!

Also, please inform how you have provided a solution?

I didn't not offer a solution because I'm not a line manufacturer and will not propose to tell SAS how to suck eggs!
Furthermore I rather believe in the intelligence of the posters on here than to doubt their line management skills, as Nags quite correctly points out people don't just loose their ability to fish, manage line or tie knots suddenly.
I have no issues with people defending a product but offer some real insight. If it was a bad batch then yes that a valid explanantion. But not any of the above that I quoted as they are clearly not what caused the breakages that BWJ experienced.




I agree with Alex in never compromising with Line. My fishing time is precious with work and a young family, I used to use Super PE. never had breakage issues but the stuff windknots easily. Of the stuff I have used I can recommend Unitika Aorika, Toray Seabass Power game, and the best of the lot is Dragoncall 8 Carrier.

Yutryn has stated that it may have been a bad batch and had taken the time with an honest explanation of what could possibly go wrong, and you cant fault his customer service. Kudos!

If read as the thread progressed it would make more sense rather than individual references. Did not intend on misleading anyone.

BMJ detailed his issue but other comments were quite flippant and I apologise as my line management offering was not directed at BMJ.
I too, have cast 3 lures off in my life, all due to line mismanagement. 1 was due to a dodgy albright knot coming undone and the other 2 were from small loops hitting the stripper guide causing a sudden stop with the subsequent shock snapping the line at the weakest point.
There are 2 knots I use that are very reliable for me with nanofil and SAS through experience. I use a variation of an albright knot where I pass the braid through the loop of the doubled up leader, straight up then 7 wraps down and through the loop twice. Make sure it is neat or it will break on testing. The knot will either be fine or useless but in saying that, roughly 1 in 20 will fail when I tie it - my fault as I need glasses but don't wear them fishing.
The other knot is a variation on a slim beauty which is hard to explain so I won't try, which was shown to me for using with micro guides.
I also predominately use 4lb vhard leader.
As far as solving the issue, it's quite difficult without seeing all the conditions but we need to be our own critics.