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Old 14-02-2008, 12:30 AM
Lone Ranger Lone Ranger is offline
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Interesting read ....

Most of you being members have already read this. I found the article rather interesting especially the part quoted by Steve Morgan re bass tournaments. Just thought others may find it interesting too. Have heard of this being discussed in the past.

http://www.fishingmonthly.com.au/_bb...pic.php?t=6127
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Old 14-02-2008, 12:37 AM
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Just saw the post from Steve. Personally, I like the idea. Especially where it sets in stone that the boater cannot hinder the non-boaters fishing.

JMO.
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Old 14-02-2008, 08:50 AM
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Bear,

Hey ... what do ya know .... my login works again! It didn't a while ago.

Anyway ... the US rules also say that the non-boaters can't come up the front of the boat either, so it's a two-edged sword.

Cheers,

SM
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Old 14-02-2008, 09:18 AM
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Honestly mate, not sure why it wasn't working as it's never been locked.

On the NB front, from experience, it doesn't take much to set a boat up well for both in most situations. In shared weight events I think that position rule can go.

JMO.
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Old 14-02-2008, 06:13 PM
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Again from normal fishing situations I have been in, yes IMO its a good idea to keep the angler and co angler separate. However, teams events when fishing tight up in structure I can see the benefit of fishing side by side and nosing in.

I have done and prefer to fish like Dizzy, when im upgrading or adding fish to the well or changing lure, I give the co angler a chance to steer the boat with the leccy so we dont run into anything or drift out of the fishing spot. I think it could hinder them, me tying a knot and not watching where we are and drifting further out so they cant cast into the strike zone.

Then theres the situation when your onto that awesome kicker fish and he powedives down near the prop. Im sure most of us would like to be standing right over the motor when that happens, not up the front. The same happens if the co angler hooks a good fish and it ends up towards the leccy.

I have taken input from non boaters and if they are in a better position than me, I will try to do the right by them, 2006 GF in mandurah, I told simmsy that I was going to get him onto some fish and he placed third. While I was dissapointed with my effort, I was stoked that he fished well and got there. What I dont like is when people say where we should be fishing because where we are is crap. A boater prefishes and makes a plan, all that time and effort he invested in getting fish for him and his co angler should be respected. I havent lost it with anyone and dont plan to. Im not sure if there could be room for a code of conduct as Steve suggested on the other site. Hopefully it never gets to the situation that its needed. Common sense isnt a difficult thing to have or attain.

JMO

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Old 14-02-2008, 06:28 PM
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a mate of mine was fishing the tweed qualifier last year and got a boater that not only pritty much told him to stay the hell out of his way but he positioned the bow of the boat to all the structure the whole day giving no chance for him to cast towards anything likely to hold fish.
he ended up getting 3 fish but if given the chance he would have easily caught 5 fish and upraded. the amount of fish around in the comp was crazy and there is no way he could have only caught 3 fish without a good reason. very good angler but due to a lak of spotsman ship by his boater pritty much garanteed him no way of getting in the top 10.
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Old 14-02-2008, 10:28 PM
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my 2c

i think a part of the sport "going to the next level" will require alot of the unwritten rules and etiquette to be formaly documented.

i dont think this is somthing to avoid or be worried about, it will simply become a necessity.

personaly i when i began as a NB (and ins't co-angler a much better term) i would have loved to be able to read a document which covered what was expected of me and how i was expected to conduct myself. in the end, like everyone else, i had to use my common sense and play it by ear. the only problem with that approach is that common sense is that not all that common.

i think the "U.S." rule is a good one and should be implemented with only a slight softening to allow the co-angler to take control of the boat if the pro is re-rigging or similar.

with the etiquette question, i believe a formal document is way over due. it will solve a lot of niggling issues. as a NB i always kept my opinion to myself unless it was asked for by the pro, which it usualy was. As a pro i always ask my NB's opinion as the way i look at it the more info i have the better my choice will be. and thats the key issue as i see it, at the end of the day its the pro's choice. he or she has put in the time effort and money to buy the boat, pre-fish, and develop a plan so he or she get the final say.

which links back into the comments on steve's site, if the pro chooses to break the code of ethics or rules, he or she should wear the penality / ridicule / scorn becase at the end of the day its their call.

hope thats not to rambling and kind of stayed on topic.

Macca

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Old 15-02-2008, 12:30 AM
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Maybe I read it wrong some thing along the lines of Who Shares Win, but I suppose when your fishing for SHEEP STATIONS all that goes out the window

Cheers Samurai
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Old 15-02-2008, 12:41 AM
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I don't think 'Who Shares Wins' is going to change in the overall scheme of things Warren, but it was always going to go the way it has with comps. I'm glad to say WA hasn't gone the way of some comps I've seen and that, for the most part, we are very approachable when it comes to talking about techniques etc. After all, that's what this site is all about and I don't see it slowing down any time soon. I do think Steve's suggestion of a 'Code of Ethics' being developed by the anglers themselves is a good idea. A chance to set in stone many of the things we try to convey.
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Old 15-02-2008, 07:28 AM
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I am very new to comp angling,(as a few of you already know) but I would like to mention some things.

First, it would seem to me that to say that comp fishing is not like Golf is only partially correct. I have been playing Golf for many years, starting as a junior and I learned the rules and ettiquet of Golf because you are told when you start, ettiquet is written into the rule books telling you what is expected, but most of all because if you don't follow the code, no-one will partner you until you do!!!

I have had a vey long talk with an experienced boater and during this conversation this very subject came up. He explained the unwritten rules and at Walpole I plan to abide by them.(so if you get me as your co-angler on day two, don't even ask.) I must say though, he didn't mention offering fuel money. I would have done it anyway, but my point is, if it was all written down there would be no mistakes, no excuses and less anger.

Hope I haven't gone above my station, but in my job we listen to even the newest recruit because they are looking with fresh eyes.

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Old 15-02-2008, 09:27 AM
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Its an interesting one i think. On the one hand, lets face it the organisers want the non boaters because they double up on fees paid to them. Pure and simple that one. And the more non boaters they can convert into boaters the more chance of expotential growth.
Secondly. Lets not kid ourselves, we fish in a competition format with points, prizes etc etc. Therefore we act as a sport not a social outing, so tell me, in what other sport can you rock up with only really half of what is required by other competitors and still take advantage of a level playing field. That is half the competitors rock up with fishing gear and a boat, the other half just fishing gear and yet get the same advantage as those with a boat. Its like rocking up to a water skiing comp with just some ski's knowing that someone else is going to provide you with what else is needed..
In my own situation, i like to stick with this tried formula, which I normally make aware to my passenger. I put my boat in the best possible position for us both, if you have to keep the nose into a snag you simply cannot control a boat or are just being ignorant, or cant cast, practise all of the above.
When a fish is caught, the person not onto the fish grabs the landing net and nets the fish, that person then hands the net to the angler and takes charge of the front of the boat, until if its me i am finished with the fish and am ready to take the front again. Those of you that have fished with me, know that i can take some time looking after that fish and if I am fishing at the back its just because that fish needs some more looking after.
And when you have guys pulling up to "your" spots, well its like saying my secret spot on the swan. And if your non boater from the day before does it well thats life, fishing is all about gathering infomation about the most likely places to catch fish. Havent been able to stop this in the past and wont be able to stop it in the future, unless only those with boats can fish comps, and as I have said that wont happen because non boaters are worth dollars in the bank to organisers as well.
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Old 15-02-2008, 11:24 AM
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Pretty cynical attitude Leon, and I'm glad to say I've never had those feelings as an organiser. I'm also little disappointed with the consistant us and them attitude that is obviously still out there with some people.

Fact - not everyone can afford the outlay towards a boat and to that matter, not everyone wants a boat.

Fact - NB's put us much into the tackle shops as anyone. Perhaps more if they don't have a boat to worry about.

Fact - without NB's, there are no comps. They deserve to have opportunities of their own. Whether it be in a GF or an AOY.

With a little more thought and effort maybe there would be a few more anglers come through from teams events.
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Old 15-02-2008, 11:35 AM
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Here's one for you. The GF winning boater and non-boater in each section, barra\bass\bream, fish as teams in the AFC. What an incentive to get people into the sport.
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Old 15-02-2008, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear View Post
Pretty cynical attitude Leon, and I'm glad to say I've never had those feelings as an organiser. I'm also little disappointed with the consistant us and them attitude that is obviously still out there with some people.

Fact - not everyone can afford the outlay towards a boat and to that matter, not everyone wants a boat.

Fact - NB's put us much into the tackle shops as anyone. Perhaps more if they don't have a boat to worry about.

Fact - without NB's, there are no comps. They deserve to have opportunities of their own. Whether it be in a GF or an AOY.

With a little more thought and effort maybe there would be a few more anglers come through from teams events.
Bear I really dont think i am being cynical at all, more like a realist. And your right not everyone can afford a boat, or even wants one. Why would you when you can enter a comp and fish on a boat all weekend for nix. Its not us and them, in my mind never has been, i have had the pleasure of some great guys fishing with me. I am doing ABT comps over east as a non boater and am glad for the oppurtunity to take advantage of the competition setup. So I guess that makes me both us and them.
And your other two facts come down to exactly what I was saying, non boaters are worth money as well, and seeing as the sponsors of events are from the tackle industry, the organisers mostly have some sort of tackle shop or industry involvement, they would be nuts not to include them. But answer me this, why would there be no comps without NB's. There are only boaters in the AFC as you have pointed out and that seems to run fine, and sponsorships for that series are into the 100s of thousands.
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Old 17-02-2008, 08:24 PM
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'But answer me this, why would there be no comps without NB's. '

I don't know that there would be many of us who would be interested in fishing every event on your own. I certainly wouldn't. Add to that the fact that many boaters use the NB side of things to get a feel for the comps and to learn how to improve their boating skills. No more NB's and I wonder how many would really try to get into comps without that experience.

'There are only boaters in the AFC as you have pointed out and that seems to run fine, and sponsorships for that series are into the 100s of thousands. '

How can you compare the AFC Leon, come on. A small event that has it's own agenda. Other than the fact that the AFC does have a NB in the barra section. Personally, I like the way the 2 guys bounce off each other a LOT more. Again, AFC as teams in each species would be even more enjoyable to me.

JMO.
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