Mandurah Bream comp

[steve anderson]

Recently I expressed concerns with the relocation of bream from the Murray and Serpentine rivers systems for weigh in purposes during the bream comps .

It was suggested this is not a concern because some trials done on the Eastern comps prove some of the bream head back to where they were caught.
Thats fine and I cannot question the results for that system .

But I do have concerns with the same logic being applied on the Peel inlet , with no trials to even suggest this would work here.
Some say it's fine as there is now a thriving population of bream over the marina.
I would like to point out the marina is a no fish zone these fish are lost to the local bream fishers .
If the bream do move out and into the canal system there is the real potential for conflict with the canal residents who feed these bream and look on them as their "pets" .
If as some suggest it's fine the bream will head back all the way to the river I think little consideration has been given to the big dolphin populations of the Peel that patrol the shallow water the bream would have to negotiate , it would be a miracle if any bream made it past these pods of dolphins.

I would like to suggest the organisers have a look at options available to weigh the fish on the river system they were caught in and release those fish back into that system.

With the increase in comps and competitors this year it seems irresponsible to me to have a comp with the potential to collectively remove dozens of breeding stock from a system already suffering big annual fish kills and regular bait fishing to deplete numbers.

The comp can still have it's presentation over the marina , the only difference would be the fish stay where they belong.

I'm hoping this will be given some serious consideration by those organising the series of tournaments and help set a new standard for bream fishing in WA .

Regards
Steve Anderson

[Stik]

Steve,
Could fisheries be involved in these comps tagging fish.
Also Steve I didn't realise the marina is a no go zone or is this just for the comps.

[MODIFIED]

As far as i know the marina is open to fishing and so are the canals as long as you respect other peoples property.

as far as bream being removed from the river

if you look at the bags caught in the comps, it would be less than 80 fish a year and there is no local scientific evidence that the bream will or wont move back to the system they came from

also, who is to say the bream caught came from that system origionally.

i have also seen dolphins up past murray bend so a few bream crossing the estuary would have as much chance as the ones in the rivers.

there is nothing stopping anglers from taking the captured bream back to the system from where they were caught after the weigh in.

i would focus your attention on the water quality of the rivers rather than a few tourement anglers who actually do a good job of looking after the bream.

anyway, i though all this was addressed in your other post about this same subject earlier on in the year.

regards

Mods

[shufoy]

Originally Posted by Stik

Steve,
Could fisheries be involved in these comps tagging fish.
Also Steve I didn't realise the marina is a no go zone or is this just for the comps.

Interesting point Stik, with a large number of bream at easy access for Tagging it would make sense to tag a crapload of these fish prior to release. It would also to go a long way to support Steve's concerns, or disprove if it were the case. With fisheries management being such a hi-priority for the future of the fish, and fishing, i am really quite suprised that this isint taking place already. Surely there are some research groups that would jump at the chance. You could even release some in town and some back in the river and track them? Seems to be a real gift horse for them..

This would apply to all the rivers fished in comps, and some of our biggest and most precious systems are amongst those.

[Ian Sewell]

Hi Steve, I am sure getting on a public forum is not really going to get you far! Why not ring or e mail the tournament organisers, and express your concerns to them.

You could also call Recfishwest or look on their website and see what policies they have about this sort of thing, or even suggest to them that it may be a great research possibility for the future.

If you are that concerned I am sure the Tournament directors could change it to a catch and kill comp. Then you can be sure the fish are dead and do not have to swim past the dolphins or live a horrible life growing fat in the marinas.

Ian.

[Hazell]

Originally Posted by steve anderson

I would like to suggest the organisers have a look at options available to weigh the fish on the river system they were caught in and release those fish back into that system.

I see where you are coming from mate.

However, I don't see how a tournament weigh in could be completed at 3 different locations at once (Murray, Serp, Town). Plus many anglers will fish 2 or more locations in a Mandurah comp and can't be expected to remember exactly where each of their fish came from.

[Bear]

I don't see how Mandurah is any different to the Blackwood, Swan, Albany or even Walpole when it comes to where the fish are released vs caught. Not to mention the fact that the comps have been going for more than long enough to be able to see if there was going to be any real effect on fishing and fish populations.

'Steve,
Could fisheries be involved in these comps tagging fish.
Also Steve I didn't realise the marina is a no go zone or is this just for the comps. '

The offer has always been there and we have been involved in the past on a number of occasions with Murdoch Uni and the work they do.

[Justin Boyle]

Can't see there being a big problem with relocating a few bream. Bream move around a lot throughout their life cylce anyway. Only have to take a look at the swan to see that the big bream follow the fresh water year round. As soon as the rains come and the fresh water comes down so do the big bream(presumably the fish we are concerned at since these are the ones we see at weigh in) A big bream that is perhaps 20 years old has been able to survive until now and I bet has troubled a crap load of km's in its lifetime. Perhaps what we do is a major inconvenience to the bream but that would bring up the argument of whether we should be fishing full stop.

If we were talking 1000 fish at weigh in then maybe it might be worth having a closer look but 100 fish isn't going to change things much. There'd be 100 bream for every 10 boats moored at the marina down there.....

[steve anderson]

Originally Posted by Online store

Hi Steve, I am sure getting on a public forum is not really going to get you far! Why not ring or e mail the tournament organisers, and express your concerns to them.

You could also call Recfishwest or look on their website and see what policies they have about this sort of thing, or even suggest to them that it may be a great research possibility for the future.

If you are that concerned I am sure the Tournament directors could change it to a catch and kill comp. Then you can be sure the fish are dead and do not have to swim past the dolphins or live a horrible life growing fat in the marinas.

Ian.

No worries guys , I was told the bream guys would close ranks and bag me for suggesting this so I was expecting some small minded reply's.
(not all of you's)

This is being discussed with RFW and Fisheries , I dont really think you guys are doing yourselves any favours by having a "we will not even consider this " type of attitude .

I guess we shall see where it ends up , I truly thought some type of moral ethic might be applied here and not a "whats the problem " type of response.

Bream comps should be setting the standard for the fishes welfare , this is certainly not the case at present in my opinion.

Cheers.

[Richo]

Originally Posted by steve anderson

Bream comps should be setting the standard for the fishes welfare , this is certainly not the case at present in my opinion.

Cheers.

Glad you said it is your opinion Steve, because you really have no facts to back it up, therefore I can maybe assume you are having problems nailing a few up the river? or has someone caught the ones you feed?

If you dont think Bream comps are setting the standard for the fishes welfare, then obviously you havn't compared it to Swanfish because for some funny reason I think the bream caught there might have even less chance of making it home.

With the amount of bait fisherman out there knocking them on the head in every system in this state. In my opinion having a crack at lure fisherman and bream tournaments is a cheap shot.

I can only shake my head at where some peoples minds wander to these days. You should be more worried about the fish that don't make it to legal size because they have become a fish finger, a regular occurance.

cheers

[brad mcdonald]

dont understand your last comments at all steve.

you had replys from only a small number of people, hardly closing ranks.

if it is being discussed at RFW as you suggest then your already had a win, why do you feel the need to ask the comp scene to fall on their collective sword, by conceding?

"whats the problem" - well thats just it, just as the comp scene can not prove that no problem exists, you cant prove one does ...... unless someone coughs up for the research requiered to be sure one way or the other, its just opinion nothing else.

"setting the standards" - if you can point out another group of anglers setting a better or higher standard durring an event lets hear who they are. i for one would like to shake their hands, as anyone trying to do the right thing has my yes.

but theres the kicker .... "the right thing" .... as it stands each angler would be within their legal right to keep the fish caught in a comp (obv outside the rules of the comp but still legal) so if your suggesting that the laws are wrong then thats another issue all together.

posts on here or on anyother froum is not going to change a law. i'm sure you are well aware of the options for reform on that track.

[brad mcdonald]

one other question.

who are the "bream guys"?

[Richo]

Originally Posted by brad mcdonald

dont understand your last comments at all steve.

you had replys from only a small number of people, hardly closing ranks.

if it is being discussed at RFW as you suggest then your already had a win, why do you feel the need to ask the comp scene to fall on their collective sword, by conceding?

"whats the problem" - well thats just it, just as the comp scene can not prove that no problem exists, you cant prove one does ...... unless someone coughs up for the research requiered to be sure one way or the other, its just opinion nothing else.

"setting the standards" - if you can point out another group of anglers setting a better or higher standard durring an event lets hear who they are. i for one would like to shake their hands, as anyone trying to do the right thing has my yes.

but theres the kicker .... "the right thing" .... as it stands each angler would be within their legal right to keep the fish caught in a comp (obv outside the rules of the comp but still legal) so if your suggesting that the laws are wrong then thats another issue all together.

posts on here or on anyother froum is not going to change a law. i'm sure you are well aware of the options for reform on that track.

Definitley smarter than you look pal, well written Mr McDonald. pretty spot on.

[nuzzy]

Originally Posted by steve anderson

regular bait fishing to deplete numbers.

Well there's your problem right there.

But here's some stats for you.

In the 2 Mandurah comps held last year there were a total of 88 fish weighed in, 48 in the April round and 40 in the August round, which were then released at the marina. Now, out of those 88 fish, how many came from the rivers??? Maybe 50% - Greater even, lets, for your purpose, say the full 100% came from the rivers so that's 88 fish for the 12 month period, averaged out to a approx. 7 fish per 4 week period.

To put that in perspective, that's the average Joe sitting there fishing to his bag limit for one weekend (2 days) per month and they are completely removing them from the system not just relocating them 10 Km down the road with the possibility of getting back.

In retrospect, what the "bream guys" are doing in 12 months is miniscule compared to what the hundreds of recreational fishers including yourself are doing every month.

That's my 2 cents worth.

[shano]

Im going to put a new one out there to you steve.
Lets put another variable into this equation.
How many big bream do you think dolphins and sharks kill in the Murray each year compared to how many catch and release bream anglers take from the murray ? Those fish taken from the murray by the anglers are released alive and healthy in town which (in my opinion) may have more food than the murray does anyway.

Then you have the same predators in the town system targeting these fish aswell. So the fact that there are plenty of numbers in both systems tells us that black bream are good at adapting to their surrounding environments or any changes to their surrounding environments. Plus theyve survived for thousands of years in the food chain they live in and had to tackle many natural problems that may have affected their numbers.
So im not really buying into an argument which thinks a bunch of catch and release bream anglers pulling a few fish out of the murray and relocating them to another area is going to dent the numbers in the river. And half of the teams in the mandurah events dont bring back full bags anyway with a quarter of the teams catching nothing at times.

Come down to the mandurah events if you havent already done so and get a first hand perspective of these catch and release tournaments.