JMT Bass Boats

[Pukka]

Hi Guys,

After a couple of years of being a 'boat slut' with Billfish, bassifier and many others, I've finally decided it's time to get afloat.
I'm looking for a boat which I can use in the bream and bass comps', as I'll be taking part in as many tourneys as I can next year and in the coming months.
I've looked at many brands so far and the ubiquitous Quintrex 435 Hornet Trophy seems to come the closest to what I'm after. Just recently however I've noticed JMT Bass Boats, which from viewing the pics' on Warren's (Samurai's) website, look very impressive indeed.
Reading Warren's recent posts and his write up on the website, I realise he's a big fan of these boats and plate hulls in general, but I'd like to know if anyone else has had any experience with JMT Bass Boats or boats of this type?
I'd be interested to hear any opinions regarding their stability at rest compared to say, a Hornet, for example. I'll be fishing on my feet 100% of the time, so this is of particular importance to me. Actually, Warren maybe you could help me out on this one?

Thanks in advance,

Pukka

PS If you haven't seen them here's the link to the page on Samurai's website. Hope this is OK with you Warren, if not I'll delete it, ta'.


JMT Bass Boats

[Bassifier]

Not working mate

[Jocool]

hey bassifier...worked for me mate!

[Pukka]

Originally posted by Jocool
hey bassifier...worked for me mate!

Hi Jocool, I fixed the link in the original post.

Pukk'

[BHH]

I think I will be sending an email to the guy that builds those boats

Probably the best looking plate boat Ive seen.. Love the lines...

Had no experience with those boats but Id love to go into the garage and see that looking at me...

Blake

[fatman]

The JMT boats are good looking , but a bit skinny in the guts for a 5 metre boat (only 1.8m). Most boats of equal size are up round the 2.2 m +.
Have a look at Elegant boats, bit of a cross between a Hornet and an Edgetraker, and they fly.
http://www.elegantboats.com/

FATMAN

Hi Pukka, mate the hornet guys are not going to like this but these are the facts.

Plate boats are a lot more stable than streched boat, plate boats tend to sit in the water, where as streched boats tend to sit on the water (that's putting in the simplest terms, without get all techy).

Plate boats ride better and handle better. If the hull is made right you don't need big hp motors the get then going, mine is just on 5mt including pod and is 4mm plate, up until last year it only ever had a 40hp on it, this year I went up to a 50hp only because I was looked after by a long time sponsor.

There really is no arguement against plate boat, ok they are a little dearer, but then again are they really that much more expensive? example, for what it cost you to get a top of the line Hornet you could by a JMT or a Cairns Custom Craft. The main problem people have with plate boats is that they think their to expensive when really they are much better value and always hold their resale value.

Plate boats and streched alloy boats are like chalk and cheese, you really can't put them in the same class.

As I said in another post, when a S Easter blow up the Hinchinbrook Channel and the tide is running you can get a very nasty short sharp 4 ft chop, Iv seen all sorts of Streach alloy boat battered from piller to post and crawling along to stop the battering, while the guys in plate boats are going full noise in comfort, a example of this was a guide from southern NSW who does a once a year charter for a couple of weeks at Hinchinbrook, not so long ago he arrived up there with his brand new Quintrex only to split the hull coming home in the chop on his first day out.

You only have to look at the 98% of NQ and NT charter boats all plate boats (most are CCC built)

Even the most one eyed Hornet fan can not compere their Hornet to a plate boat. But be warned not everyone builds good plate boats.

Samurai

[Pukka]

Hey Warren, I know what you mean about sitting 'in' and 'on' the water.
A friend of mine has a Stessl Bass Boss and I was very impressed with the way it sat on (in) the water. It also had a very reassuring 'solid' feel about the hull, as I guess you'd expect from a plate hull boat.
While the Bass Boss is a little out of my price range the JMT's seem to be within my budget. I'll be speaking to JMT tomorrow anyway so we'll see what he can do and exactly what I'll be 'up for'.

Hey Fatman, good to see you on Sunday mate. I know what you mean about the beam, but I think the plate hull makes up for the difference in beam size.
I haven't seen the Elegant Boats in the 'flesh', but I've heard a few things about them from people who have. They are without doubt, a very well fitted out boat, but stability was a bit of a concern. Not sure to what extent this is. The comment was made with reference to the 4.1(?) model only.

Thanks for the replies guys,

Joe

Guys, all the new JMTs will be much wider at the ass. I was talking to Mark from JMT a couple of days ago, and he told me his new price on the hulls fitted out, with trailer (no motor) very ,very good value.


Samurai

Comes as much from design as it does from weight. That said, some weight in a stable boat will make it more stable than a equivalent design lightweight pressed / stretched hull.

If you really do want stability and beam as well as deckspace, why wouldn't you consider a plate multihull (cat or tri hull?)

If you wan't to "do a stability test" on various models before you buy one - then you should.

This is how to do it.

Take along yourself and 2 or 3 mates,(however many your going to be licensed to carry) get into whoevers boat you think is good for stability, and put all of you on the one side in flat water. Measure the remaining freeboard.

If the remaining freeboard is more than 1/8th the beam you have a stable boat at rest.

(So for an 8 ft beam boat you should have more than 1 ft freeboard at the side, with the full passenger load ALL on that side.) That would be a stable and safe boat for breaming in inland waters...(and is the test that dept maine transport use for licensed surveyed passenger vessels).

Usually multihulls tend to pass this test easiest!

Now, if you just want to compare various boats for "stability on paper first, get the manufacturer gto goive you a measurement off their design plan called the boats Metacentre or metacentric height, and it's "GZ" (righting lever length).

Heres a link you can read about vessel stability and how it works.

http://hawaii-marine.com/templates/s...ty_article.htm

This stability factor is one regularly ignored by Ferry captains in impoverished countrys like the Phillipines where we regularly hear about Ferry Capsizes, on overloaded vessels. Their stability is compromised by overloading and they capsize easily due to excessive weight.

This is an area the bream comps organisers are one day potentially going to find themselves "liable for" when a vessel capsizes during a comp and someones life, is lost one day. Many of the small vessles we see here being modified to include LARGE livewells for the well being of the fish, at the insistence of Bream comp rules, will have their inherrant stability compromised by the inclusion of never intended masses of onboard water which may have unintended (but forseeable, hence preventable) consequences on vessel stability.

Remember that bream comps are conducted in essentially brackish water (hence constining salt) and the recent high court finding against a Perth Boater in Perth waters ruled that such waters are in fact part of the sea, hence the guys public liability insurance doesnt cover him for liability due to "peril of the sea" loophole in the law.

This means that the boater himself may have perdsonal accident injury insurance on his vessel and the comp organisers may have public liability insurance and find after the fact that ti doesn't cover them.

In this situation th estate of the deceased will sue the vessel designer, manufacturer and the comp organisers.

The vessel designer will have his butt covered - the vessel was modified away from his "safe" design without his approval.

The Boat dealer or aluminium fabricator who does the livewell modification work - won't however be able to claim any such protection. Neither of course will the comp organisers who should know better than to insist in a competition rule, that a vessels stability safety might inadvertantly compromised by the inclusion of a never intrended in the design, "excessively large" (read heavy) livewell.

Is any 'stability test' carried out bye the comp organisers prior to "allocating" shore based anglers to these craft?

Whilst the organiisers might be happy with one skipper and one passenger and a lot of water in a boat - the skipper might be within his legal right to pick up a couple chicky babes at the barrack street jetty for a lift on the river if his vessel capacity plate states he can carry say 4 people..

Then when the boat sinks in the mioddle of the river die to a ferry wake etc...the organisers of the comp could find themselves liable to the chicky babes parents of one or both were lost due to bbeing unale to swim or coldwater or whatever as a result of the accident.

Such is the litageous society we live in today.

Requiring vessel modifications such as livewells "without" having any knowledge of the potential design compromises that might affect a vessels stability and hence safety is no excuse in a court of law when your being sued..

This is an area that ABT are leaving themselves and their directors /comp organisers wide open to an eventual lawsuit IMHO.

Vessels are designed by people who know what they are doing for a reason and those who don't (know what they are doing) would be well advised not to mess with something as complex as vessel stability design.

I mean - modified designs - water pumping livewell plumbing without risers and thru hull seacocks etc etc.....any good maritime lawyer would have a field day with the comp organisers - they COULD end up being the ones TOTALLY liable.....and it MAY not even be during a comp.

Lets say a boats modified to enter a comp and a month later sinks halfway to Rotto...it COULD potentially end up that the comp organisers are liable for requiring that the vessel be modified away from its intended design.

I know a few knowwledgeable bpoatser who don't fish ABT comps for this very reason - they DON'T believe the required rules for livewells are sound, in terms of vessels safety / stability, and won't modify their boats accordingly.

It is something the organisers need to address IMHO...but it's no skin off my nose if they don't.

Cheers!

In that diagram above about stability, in terms of a livewell.

What happens to a rectangular livewell holding say 150 litres of water when the boat heels?

If you draw it in - the livewell stays paralell to the vessels deck.

The water however at serious angles of heel doesn't.

It flows to one side.

This does a few things.

1. It may overflow into the bilge

2. It may set up a sloshing movement (momemnt of inertia) if insufficiently baffled.

3. The centre of gravity of that mass of water MOVES sideways as the boat heels - thus effectively accentuating the vessels heel angle.

4. Any water that flows to the Bilge likewise flows to level - however due to the hull angle of heel - it's centre of gravity is also shifted to the same side.

5. Even if the livewell IS baffled, the bilge if NOT adequaltely likewise baffled could start a sloshing period of momentum force that can asist the vessel to caosize prenmaturely with all the water hat overflows out of the large livewells.

ABT bream livewell rules are just plain dumb in terms of vessel safety IMHO.

With the new marine transort dept industry vessel construction standards comming into force next year, (along with compulsory licensing to drive said vessels) many vessels IN WA that have been so modified to comply with Bream comp rules may fail to gain a license.

It won't just be a case of sending a cheque to transport dept for your boat license, it will have to pass inspection (and stability tests!!!!).

Will ABT be compensating such vessel owners?, seeing they are the ones requiring the modifications for their comps???

Could get awfull expensive for a lot of these new custom boats being built this year!!!!

Something to think about for those of you all madly welding willy nilly inside your boats.

Cheers!

Shows what can happen to a livewell when the vessel heels, either in a hard turn under power or of two people walk to one side to net, land or photograph a fish lets say!

Unintended things are usually what sinks a boat and all boats don't always sit level like they might in the workshop while your self designing / manufacturing accessories for your boat!

Boat modifications in terms of livewells and livewell plumbing are the least understood thing I've observed among regular bream posters here at this site - one can only assume that the same trend exists in those who do fish for bream Australia wide yet don't post here for one reason or another.

It's something the comps need to give a LOT more though to than they have so far - people safety MUST come before Fish comfort.

Cheers!

Seeing I'm picking on the bream comps rules, the tendency in bream boats to build "raised casting decks" lifts all the passenger loading well above the ideal metacentre height - again tending to want to make the vessels unstable.

This is all the moresop in hulls like standard 12 ft dingys with moderate v hulls..

Add in a livewell into the equation and some of these modified vessels shouldn't be allowed on the water IMHO.

In any unstable vessel - the golden rule is to lower the weight inside the boat, get it all down low - to stuffen the boats against its roll moment (make it more stable).

Having passengers All up around gunnel height AND large volumes of water sloshing around uncontrolled inside the hull is asking for an accidental capsize.

Whats the missing ingredient?.....a unintended ferry wake?????

Ever been on say a canoe when it starts to heel and gets to a point that, no matter how hard you lean the other way - it KEEPS on rolling over????

Thats in effect the same phenomenon that the bream comp rules are encouraging in vessels modified in order to participate.

Playing with fire IMHO.

Cheers!

AAAAAA HAAAAA, At last something Trouty and I agree on ,

I know of one very well known ABT guy who owns a stessel, I think it's about 4.3m, egetracker I think, now this boat has had the front casting deck extended (raised) and has a 110 litre well.

Now stop and think about it for a minute, that's a 110 litres of extra weight sloshing around side to side, plus the extra weight of the casting deck ply forward and aft on top of all that you have two guys, let's say around 10/11 stone, then throw in the weight of the fuel all above the water line. Tinnies that size were just never made to handle those sorts of things.

What most guys are trying to do is make a yank style tournament boat out of a average aussie tinny, you may spend heaps of dollars making it look trick,fit it out with all the must have goodies and give it a fancy paint job, but in the end it's still only a tinny.

Guys I not knocking anyones boat, but as Trouty has said, most of the boats fishing both the Bass and Bream comps are a accident waiting to happen

Samurai

We probably agree on a lot more stuff than you might think.

I assuem that in order to do the fishing tours you do, that like me you had to go pass a coxswains exam, including sections on occ health safety welfare at sea, Vessel design and stability navigation etc etc, not to mention a years commercial sea time on pro boats.

Thas where you learn about such stuff, and so it stands to reasion we may know a little more than the average recreational boater when it comes to such things.

The Comp organisers would be well advised to utilise that experience and knowkledge IMHO.

We can all learn a lot from someone out there, heck i moght even learn something from your posts Samuarai - or you from mine - theres no shame in improving ones knowledge when it comes to boating or fish regard;less who you get that info from.

Spending time on the water fishing around Phil Curran (the naval architect) has been a great help for me - sometimes we'll spend as much time in small boat harbours and fishing boat harbours crusing the anchorages lookin at all the various boats and just discussing their designs - figuring out who designed and who built them and analysing why they may have a particular aspect of their design for their intended purpose use.

It's amazing what these naval arcghitects know - half the time I havent a clue what he's talking about and have to go research it afterward to understand fully - but it's a LOT of fun.

I get LOTS of neat ideas for my next boat one day..

And it makes up for slow fishing days...

Damn I see some nice boats...Bro In Law Flash & I are planning 2 weeks fishing out at the Abrolhos Islands next March on this new one just launched.

Cheers!