Mandurah Bream comp

[steve anderson]

Recently I expressed concerns with the relocation of bream from the Murray and Serpentine rivers systems for weigh in purposes during the bream comps .

It was suggested this is not a concern because some trials done on the Eastern comps prove some of the bream head back to where they were caught.
Thats fine and I cannot question the results for that system .

But I do have concerns with the same logic being applied on the Peel inlet , with no trials to even suggest this would work here.
Some say it's fine as there is now a thriving population of bream over the marina.
I would like to point out the marina is a no fish zone these fish are lost to the local bream fishers .
If the bream do move out and into the canal system there is the real potential for conflict with the canal residents who feed these bream and look on them as their "pets" .
If as some suggest it's fine the bream will head back all the way to the river I think little consideration has been given to the big dolphin populations of the Peel that patrol the shallow water the bream would have to negotiate , it would be a miracle if any bream made it past these pods of dolphins.

I would like to suggest the organisers have a look at options available to weigh the fish on the river system they were caught in and release those fish back into that system.

With the increase in comps and competitors this year it seems irresponsible to me to have a comp with the potential to collectively remove dozens of breeding stock from a system already suffering big annual fish kills and regular bait fishing to deplete numbers.

The comp can still have it's presentation over the marina , the only difference would be the fish stay where they belong.

I'm hoping this will be given some serious consideration by those organising the series of tournaments and help set a new standard for bream fishing in WA .

Regards
Steve Anderson

[Stik]

Steve,
Could fisheries be involved in these comps tagging fish.
Also Steve I didn't realise the marina is a no go zone or is this just for the comps.

[MODIFIED]

As far as i know the marina is open to fishing and so are the canals as long as you respect other peoples property.

as far as bream being removed from the river

if you look at the bags caught in the comps, it would be less than 80 fish a year and there is no local scientific evidence that the bream will or wont move back to the system they came from

also, who is to say the bream caught came from that system origionally.

i have also seen dolphins up past murray bend so a few bream crossing the estuary would have as much chance as the ones in the rivers.

there is nothing stopping anglers from taking the captured bream back to the system from where they were caught after the weigh in.

i would focus your attention on the water quality of the rivers rather than a few tourement anglers who actually do a good job of looking after the bream.

anyway, i though all this was addressed in your other post about this same subject earlier on in the year.

regards

Mods

[shufoy]

Steve,
Could fisheries be involved in these comps tagging fish.
Also Steve I didn't realise the marina is a no go zone or is this just for the comps.

Interesting point Stik, with a large number of bream at easy access for Tagging it would make sense to tag a crapload of these fish prior to release. It would also to go a long way to support Steve's concerns, or disprove if it were the case. With fisheries management being such a hi-priority for the future of the fish, and fishing, i am really quite suprised that this isint taking place already. Surely there are some research groups that would jump at the chance. You could even release some in town and some back in the river and track them? Seems to be a real gift horse for them..

This would apply to all the rivers fished in comps, and some of our biggest and most precious systems are amongst those.

[Online store]

Hi Steve, I am sure getting on a public forum is not really going to get you far! Why not ring or e mail the tournament organisers, and express your concerns to them.

You could also call Recfishwest or look on their website and see what policies they have about this sort of thing, or even suggest to them that it may be a great research possibility for the future.

If you are that concerned I am sure the Tournament directors could change it to a catch and kill comp. Then you can be sure the fish are dead and do not have to swim past the dolphins or live a horrible life growing fat in the marinas.

Ian.

[Hazell]

I would like to suggest the organisers have a look at options available to weigh the fish on the river system they were caught in and release those fish back into that system.

I see where you are coming from mate.

However, I don't see how a tournament weigh in could be completed at 3 different locations at once (Murray, Serp, Town). Plus many anglers will fish 2 or more locations in a Mandurah comp and can't be expected to remember exactly where each of their fish came from.

[Bear]

I don't see how Mandurah is any different to the Blackwood, Swan, Albany or even Walpole when it comes to where the fish are released vs caught. Not to mention the fact that the comps have been going for more than long enough to be able to see if there was going to be any real effect on fishing and fish populations.

'Steve,
Could fisheries be involved in these comps tagging fish.
Also Steve I didn't realise the marina is a no go zone or is this just for the comps. '

The offer has always been there and we have been involved in the past on a number of occasions with Murdoch Uni and the work they do.

[Justin Boyle]

Can't see there being a big problem with relocating a few bream. Bream move around a lot throughout their life cylce anyway. Only have to take a look at the swan to see that the big bream follow the fresh water year round. As soon as the rains come and the fresh water comes down so do the big bream(presumably the fish we are concerned at since these are the ones we see at weigh in) A big bream that is perhaps 20 years old has been able to survive until now and I bet has troubled a crap load of km's in its lifetime. Perhaps what we do is a major inconvenience to the bream but that would bring up the argument of whether we should be fishing full stop.

If we were talking 1000 fish at weigh in then maybe it might be worth having a closer look but 100 fish isn't going to change things much. There'd be 100 bream for every 10 boats moored at the marina down there.....

[steve anderson]

Hi Steve, I am sure getting on a public forum is not really going to get you far! Why not ring or e mail the tournament organisers, and express your concerns to them.

You could also call Recfishwest or look on their website and see what policies they have about this sort of thing, or even suggest to them that it may be a great research possibility for the future.

If you are that concerned I am sure the Tournament directors could change it to a catch and kill comp. Then you can be sure the fish are dead and do not have to swim past the dolphins or live a horrible life growing fat in the marinas.

Ian.


No worries guys , I was told the bream guys would close ranks and bag me for suggesting this so I was expecting some small minded reply's.
(not all of you's)

This is being discussed with RFW and Fisheries , I dont really think you guys are doing yourselves any favours by having a "we will not even consider this " type of attitude .

I guess we shall see where it ends up , I truly thought some type of moral ethic might be applied here and not a "whats the problem " type of response.

Bream comps should be setting the standard for the fishes welfare , this is certainly not the case at present in my opinion.

Cheers.

[Richo]

Bream comps should be setting the standard for the fishes welfare , this is certainly not the case at present in my opinion.

Cheers.

Glad you said it is your opinion Steve, because you really have no facts to back it up, therefore I can maybe assume you are having problems nailing a few up the river? or has someone caught the ones you feed?

If you dont think Bream comps are setting the standard for the fishes welfare, then obviously you havn't compared it to Swanfish because for some funny reason I think the bream caught there might have even less chance of making it home.

With the amount of bait fisherman out there knocking them on the head in every system in this state. In my opinion having a crack at lure fisherman and bream tournaments is a cheap shot.

I can only shake my head at where some peoples minds wander to these days. You should be more worried about the fish that don't make it to legal size because they have become a fish finger, a regular occurance.

cheers

[brad mcdonald]

dont understand your last comments at all steve.

you had replys from only a small number of people, hardly closing ranks.

if it is being discussed at RFW as you suggest then your already had a win, why do you feel the need to ask the comp scene to fall on their collective sword, by conceding?

"whats the problem" - well thats just it, just as the comp scene can not prove that no problem exists, you cant prove one does ...... unless someone coughs up for the research requiered to be sure one way or the other, its just opinion nothing else.

"setting the standards" - if you can point out another group of anglers setting a better or higher standard durring an event lets hear who they are. i for one would like to shake their hands, as anyone trying to do the right thing has my yes.

but theres the kicker .... "the right thing" .... as it stands each angler would be within their legal right to keep the fish caught in a comp (obv outside the rules of the comp but still legal) so if your suggesting that the laws are wrong then thats another issue all together.

posts on here or on anyother froum is not going to change a law. i'm sure you are well aware of the options for reform on that track.

[brad mcdonald]

one other question.

who are the "bream guys"?

[Richo]

dont understand your last comments at all steve.

you had replys from only a small number of people, hardly closing ranks.

if it is being discussed at RFW as you suggest then your already had a win, why do you feel the need to ask the comp scene to fall on their collective sword, by conceding?

"whats the problem" - well thats just it, just as the comp scene can not prove that no problem exists, you cant prove one does ...... unless someone coughs up for the research requiered to be sure one way or the other, its just opinion nothing else.

"setting the standards" - if you can point out another group of anglers setting a better or higher standard durring an event lets hear who they are. i for one would like to shake their hands, as anyone trying to do the right thing has my yes.

but theres the kicker .... "the right thing" .... as it stands each angler would be within their legal right to keep the fish caught in a comp (obv outside the rules of the comp but still legal) so if your suggesting that the laws are wrong then thats another issue all together.

posts on here or on anyother froum is not going to change a law. i'm sure you are well aware of the options for reform on that track.

Definitley smarter than you look pal, well written Mr McDonald. ;) pretty spot on.

[nuzzy]

regular bait fishing to deplete numbers.


Well there's your problem right there. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

But here's some stats for you.

In the 2 Mandurah comps held last year there were a total of 88 fish weighed in, 48 in the April round and 40 in the August round, which were then released at the marina. Now, out of those 88 fish, how many came from the rivers??? Maybe 50% - Greater even, lets, for your purpose, say the full 100% came from the rivers so that's 88 fish for the 12 month period, averaged out to a approx. 7 fish per 4 week period.

To put that in perspective, that's the average Joe sitting there fishing to his bag limit for one weekend (2 days) per month and they are completely removing them from the system not just relocating them 10 Km down the road with the possibility of getting back.

In retrospect, what the "bream guys" are doing in 12 months is miniscule compared to what the hundreds of recreational fishers including yourself are doing every month.

That's my 2 cents worth.

[shano]

Im going to put a new one out there to you steve.
Lets put another variable into this equation.
How many big bream do you think dolphins and sharks kill in the Murray each year compared to how many catch and release bream anglers take from the murray ? Those fish taken from the murray by the anglers are released alive and healthy in town which (in my opinion;)) may have more food than the murray does anyway.

Then you have the same predators in the town system targeting these fish aswell. So the fact that there are plenty of numbers in both systems tells us that black bream are good at adapting to their surrounding environments or any changes to their surrounding environments. Plus theyve survived for thousands of years in the food chain they live in and had to tackle many natural problems that may have affected their numbers.
So im not really buying into an argument which thinks a bunch of catch and release bream anglers pulling a few fish out of the murray and relocating them to another area is going to dent the numbers in the river. And half of the teams in the mandurah events dont bring back full bags anyway with a quarter of the teams catching nothing at times.

Come down to the mandurah events if you havent already done so and get a first hand perspective of these catch and release tournaments.

[vegasbreamman]

I think you have a very interesting point Steve ! But if you think that moving 100 fish per year is doing much it's not ! The baiting pressure on the Murray has gone up 300% in the last few years !I Remember fishing the river and never seeing another boat till I headed back to the ramp! I fish the river almost every weekend and have seen a decline in certain areas but it's not the bream guys doing this . I have personally cut up 2 nets and thrown a 3rd in a bin all were full of fish ! The bream population in the mandurah and through out the peel inlet is very healthy and they have found places to breed throughout. By bringing the breeders to the marina it will in turn in 10 odd years make a massive population throughout town opening up many more places to fish !
My suggestion is to broaden your horizons and try other spots around the inlet and you will be amazed at where u find fish !

[steve anderson]

I guess the fact I live on the river and fish it every 2nd or 3rd day can make things a bit lop sided from my perspective ,every bream is important sort of thing , who else will speak up if I dont .

I don't really want to go back and pick selective quotes from some of the replies but many have mentioned the fact the bream are under one type of pressure or another........ so why add just one more .

You are taking bream from a river environment with more than enough structure to help protect them from predation to some degree and putting them in a totally salt water environment with very little structure other than poles and some rock walls and suggesting it's all fine because they can go back to the river if they want ........... and you's cant see the problem.

Do you really believe they will get past the dolphins , if you spend as much time on the Peel as I do , you would also have grave doubts .


The whole reason I posted on here is because you are the guys that will be fishing the comps and that's where the change needs to come from , all to easy say I'm talking out my arse.

I just believe it can be done better with a bit more effort from those involved.

Cheers.


For what it worth I'm no stranger to flicking lures and have been involved in a number of issue's over the years that have seen positive changes for rec's in WA.

[bender]

You lot have all missed a few points ...

Fishing articles that tell everyone how to catch bream and how to find them

Fishing guides that show people how to catch them and where to go

And fishing sites where people post pics and tell everyone where they caught it exactly...these things do more to effect the bream than the odd comp.

And you Shano ...who dared to cook one of gods bream and eat it in your tinny with that totally delicious fresh crispy salad..dammit...now i have to go to the murry and catch dinner...yuuuummmm....:D

[Bear]

I think you've miss a few of your own Szarn. How many people have those articles, comps etc turned to catch and release fishing. Again, blaming it all on a few comps a year, which is what Steve has raised, is a little narrow of field in my opinion.

[Brad Y]

I just believe it can be done better with a bit more effort from those involved.



Steve, everyone has their own ideas about what can be done better. Trouble is, unless you or a group of people are prepared to go out and do it, then its not going to happen. Quite a few people who fish comps have been involved with running them and its hard enough to do what we do. If you want to get much more involved, then logistically it gets too hard and too much for those running it. You will end up with nothing at the end of it and spoiling it for all. Might as well let PETA just come in and ban it all...

If we look at bag sizes for comps, alot of places- perth and mandurah and augusta especially appear to be weighing bigger bags of fish and more often. Quite a few plus 4kg bags have been weighed now and plenty over 3kg which werent all that common in years gone by. We cant say the fishing is getting worse...

If you want to try and look after the fish more, then get out and get stuck into those people who fish and keep their limit, and try to get rid of all the netters who rape and pillage rather than those who at least let them go and give them a chance to move around a waterway that they had previous access to their whole life anyway.

Like you, people here have been involved in flicking lures and in having a say in fisheries management here for a long time as well. But being involved in flicking lures and being involved in fisheries management is on the CV of every voting fisho in WA.

[bream explorer]

I am just wondering Steve do you catch and release all bream that you catch in the Murray or do the odd one make it to the dinner table.

[Hooked]

dont understand your last comments at all steve.

you had replys from only a small number of people, hardly closing ranks.

if it is being discussed at RFW as you suggest then your already had a win, why do you feel the need to ask the comp scene to fall on their collective sword, by conceding?

"whats the problem" - well thats just it, just as the comp scene can not prove that no problem exists, you cant prove one does ...... unless someone coughs up for the research requiered to be sure one way or the other, its just opinion nothing else.

"setting the standards" - if you can point out another group of anglers setting a better or higher standard durring an event lets hear who they are. i for one would like to shake their hands, as anyone trying to do the right thing has my yes.

but theres the kicker .... "the right thing" .... as it stands each angler would be within their legal right to keep the fish caught in a comp (obv outside the rules of the comp but still legal) so if your suggesting that the laws are wrong then thats another issue all together.

posts on here or on anyother froum is not going to change a law. i'm sure you are well aware of the options for reform on that track.

What he said :D:D:D

[steve anderson]

I hear what you are saying , "it's not us" and "go get the folks doing the wrong thing" or "It's hard to get folks to run the comps"......

But your missing my point folks , if you dont really need to remove breeding stock ......... then why do it :confused:.

A weigh in closer to the river maybe down the mouth at the Mill so both the Serp and the Murray can be covered or the Clansmen.

Mobile weigh in boats covered in sponsors ads cruising the comp for the day recording stats , or has weighing bream become that complicated it cant be done on the water?
Ckickey, I'll put my hand up and offer up my tinny if it helps .

Seems obvious this is not a popular opinion and is easy for folks to dismiss .
Thats fine , just thought I put it up and see the responses .

I have no grudge against any of you guys and understand why you like things the way they are .

Not sure whether I choose to let my bream go or not is an issue though.

[nuzzy]

Mobile weigh in boats covered in sponsors ads cruising the comp for the day recording stats , or has weighing bream become that complicated it cant be done on the water?
Ckickey, I'll put my hand up and offer up my tinny if it helps .


I can answer this one as Im one of the rare breeds that work in the scale industry. Yes they can be weighed in a boat while on the water but it's not going to be accurate at all unless you use specialized equipment which is 3 times as expensive as the gear currently used which in this current time and climate simply isn't viable.

Edit - forgot to give the reason. Scales to give an accurate weight have to be perfectly level and there is no way to do that on a boat which moves in the water without having the specifically designed scales that the offshore commercial fishos use which have motion counteractive software built in and specially designed load cells etc.

[vegasbreamman]

As I said in my previous post those breeders are not dying they are breeding in other parts of the system ! I think you are making a mountin out of a mole hill !

[bream explorer]

Gday Steve I surpose I should of explained my question a little bit better.
The only reason I asked the question is that I have only been fishing for about 3 years and have not fished a comp yet. And so far have not even fished anywhere in Mandurah,Serpentine or Murray River. But if Nuzzy said a total of 88 fish where relocated last year over the entire system due to comp fishing and that fish lives to fight another day. Is this not a better result for the fish then that fish ending up on your dinner plate. This was why I asked. And just for the record I get to fish about 6 times a year and so far have released all Bream that I have caught. And if you are so passionate about saving the bream from the dolphins why dont you offer to take them home after each comp weigh in say all of the fish from one comp released to the Murray near the mouth so they can choose. And next comp all fish caught at serpentine river mouth.

[PETER_S]

I can't resist this one...


So we weigh the fish on the water release them upriver where they are caught so they can resume their hideouts. Then along comes the blue green algae and kills the lot, we've all seen the headlines .

... "Massive fish kill due to Blue Green Algae"

So if they are released at the marina they won't be algae fodder, quite the contrary they will probably stay there till the winter rains, then spawn and return up stream.

Thats got to be a positive hasn't it steve?

[bender]

Bear , with respect , articals etc hae resulted in far more bream being eaten that being released. Its actually the tournaments that have shown thats its a greater brag when you release a good fish.

I see steves point but i think his effort would be better served by getting rid of all netting in WA.

[Bear]

Bear , with respect , articals etc hae resulted in far more bream being eaten that being released. Its actually the tournaments that have shown thats its a greater brag when you release a good fish.
.

Nationally I don't agree. The bearded one and others since have far more reach than AFC to the average angler.

Again JMO.

[brad mcdonald]

"unsubscribe"

this one's going no where.

[shano]

Steve, youre demonstrating your lack of knowledge on how these competitions are run and the difficulties involved with the different processes that take place to make each competition a success. I reccomend you go along to a few of these comps and see first hand why some things are run the way they are. Until then i probably wouldnt go on about this subject as its going no where as brad mentioned.

[steve anderson]

OK , final word (i hope)

So you have considered having a tank at the weigh in and bringing the bream back for release , or is every body to busy after the comp to drive back to the Murray .......... If so , I'll volunteer:).

And please dont bleat on the cost of a tank and trailer hire;)

And yes it's true I have a lack of knowledge on how the comps are run , I was only suggesting what I considered an improvement to the current format .

A resounding success I thought:D:)

[shufoy]

I've actually been working on a suitable, cost effective solution to this problem. Certainly with a bit of practice, we should be able to return every bream to its place of capture..

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m134/shufoy/Replica_catapult.jpg

[MODIFIED]

over the last 3 tournaments ive fished in mandurah, i have weighed in 3 fish in total.

i would be more than happy to hand over my catcht to you Steve if you have the facilities to deliver back.

will your service be available at the Black Wood, Albany or the Swan events?

[steve anderson]

over the last 3 tournaments ive fished in mandurah, i have weighed in 3 fish in total.

i would be more than happy to hand over my catcht to you Steve if you have the facilities to deliver back.

will your service be available at the Black Wood, Albany or the Swan events?


Sounds like you struggle to score a fish from the Murray Moddy :rolleyes:

Maybe you should fish the marina during the comps , there's supposed to be plentiful and fat over there:D

I'll let folks do the leg work at the other comps mate , my concern is for the river where I live and fish .......

2nd last:cool:

[driftcorp86]

my help to get them back mate :D

[Bear]

OK , final word (i hope)

So you have considered having a tank at the weigh in and bringing the bream back for release , or is every body to busy after the comp to drive back to the Murray .......... If so , I'll volunteer:).

And please dont bleat on the cost of a tank and trailer hire;)

And yes it's true I have a lack of knowledge on how the comps are run , I was only suggesting what I considered an improvement to the current format .

A resounding success I thought:D:)

Short of getting access to the tanks that Murdoch have, remembering that the fish need to be properly looked after in these tanks, the reality is that the cost if far too much. Just stating the facts.

[brad mcdonald]

And yes it's true I have a lack of knowledge on how the comps are run , I was only suggesting what I considered an improvement to the current format .

why why why am i biting ....

steve,

you sir, are uninformed by your own admission, yet you offer an improvement to the format ..... based on what? your self admited lack of knowledge about running these type of events?

respectfully, if you want comp supporters / entrants / organisers to take your sugestion serriously, how about at least meeting them half way by educating yourself in this area?

[Nick Cuccovia]

Well put Brad!!

[wade stenhouse]

gotta RELOCATE THE DOLPHINS they eatin all the bream LOL

[steve anderson]

Sorry Brad , I'm just calling it as I see it .

All Ive been reading on here is reason why the fish you catch from the river cant be put back in the river instead of over the marina.

Truth is you's like the MOSFC as a venue , what happens to the bream after the weigh in seems to matter little , so you release them ...... good on ya's.......... how many that have commented on this thread actually live here , speak up , maybe we can meet up and have a fish together and I can put my point across on the water and then see if you still disagree.

What happens next year when Fisheries WA review their translocation policies and decided what you guys are doing is suddenly unacceptable to them and make it illegal to translocate fish from the river system.

Do you stop having bream comps in the river systems ????

Sure you's will !, my money is on you guys working out how to do exactly what I've been asking you's to consider.

My knowledge on how comps are run has nothing to do with the points I've been making , beat up on me all you like guys , doesn't change the facts you's are pulling fish that may well be critical breeding stock out of a system already under pressure .

Go pat yourselves on the back guys.:rolleyes:

[breamin']

Steve where do you get the system is under pressure is it because you fish it 3 to 4 times a week if YOU reckon it's under PRESSURE, then stop fishing then there's one less to worry about the system being under pressure BUT you said yourself you FISH that's what i dont get. and why don't you become one of the organizers that would help ease your mind as how these tournament guys that live and breath fishing are informed more than most BUT here;s my argument on the DOLPHIN"S as a scuba diver you should come out one time and see first hand how dolphins actually struggle to catch bream they are quicker by far and they actually tease the dolphins mate this is from first hand experience of diving the river, YES diving the river,and mate the current and tides bream go everywhere in 24 hours..so please come on down and i'll show you the most beauifull river in the world that is thriving

[Brad Y]

gotta RELOCATE THE DOLPHINS they eatin all the bream LOL

I say pickle em and send em to phil just like the dugongs

[steve anderson]

Steve where do you get the system is under pressure is it because you fish it 3 to 4 times a week

You would have to have your head buried pretty deep in the sand if you don't know or haven't heard of the annual algal blooms and fish kills on the Serp and Murray , over the last how many years ?..... and does it look like getting any better??.......... any theories on why the 50+ fish are like rocking horse waste, when fish at 40 could be 20 years old .

And yes the fact I am on the river very regularly does give a bit of a better insight on to what state it's in .

As far as swimming with the dolphins ........ lucky you , I peddle with them .

The point I was making is the bream would have to negate several kilometres of OPEN WATER , as in country barren of structure with literally dozens of dolphins patrolling that very same water daily and your saying the bream will play hidy with them , keep believing that one .;)

Your lucky to live and dive on the worlds best river , I live on a river where every breeding fish counts .

[Doc_Hollywood]

Been reading this and wondering if i should weigh in with my 2 bobs. Understand where you are coming from steve but there is a fundamental flaw in your argument or some of your statements.
Fisheries work out how many fisherman target individual species of fish, what the concentrations of these species are, where they are found, breeding cycles etc etc etc, and more importantly the bio mass of that particular species. Then they determine how many of these fish can be taken by fisherman and bobs your uncle there is your species limit.
Each fisherman can take four black bream and the scientists have determined that they will continue to flourish. There is no translocation protocol because you are legally with scientific permission allowed when ever you go fishing to take and kill your bag limit. You catch them they are for all purposes dead, if you catch more they must be put back in the best possible condition as soon as possible where you caught them. That includes blowies people. You cant catch 20 and then tell fisheries you are putting 16 back can you, there are no different rules for C & R.
So if you decide to put your 4 fish back into the system you are actually adding fish to the system because those fish are considered dead by the scientists and the system will flourish without them. Look at the Swan more people than ever practising C&R and big fish are becoming rarer. So now there is a slot limit on the swan. And this is happening because of too many midsize fish competing for food and space because they arent being removed.
But i love your passion stick with it.:D

[steve anderson]

Thanks for the insight Doc .:)

Still doesn't change the moral issue though.

[bubba]

You last argument was based on the state of the river rather than the beam comps and I am glad.
Do you realize the river is in the state it is in because of the locals? Fertilizers draining of grass and plants are what is (proven by by various government and scientific departments) the main responsibility for the red tide that causes oxygen depletion.
This in turn kills fish trying to live in oxygen depleted water. For further information please see this Water WA pamphlet http://www.water.wa.gov.au/PublicationStore/first/85075.pdf
Fix "Your river" and the fish might come back

Before you start pointing the finger at a small group of people, look at your own back yard. Its all good and well to say "I don't do it" but what about your neighbors? Their neighbors?

We have moved approx 1200 fish in 8 years (yes 8 years only). Can you count how many fish you have KILLED? No because you don't keep records. What bout your neighbors? I would say not.

Speaking of locals. Do you know how many have been done for speeding on the river? I can tell you it is a LOT more than the WA Bream tournament scence. Infact I dont there has been 1 person in a tournament on the Mrray that has been pinged. This is just for your information and a dig at the idiots that bring out speed guns.
Heres an idea Steve. Create an action group. Join the Greens and you will get EVERYTHING you want

[vegasbreamman]

Well for someone who bangs on how they know the river there has not been a large fish kill from algae in the last 2-3 years!!!! Also I can tell you that I have spoke to many locals fishing with bait on the canals and river time and time they tell me how the neck 40+ all the time !!!! If you bang on about bream fishers go and talk to your neighbours first !!! They are doing far more damage!!!!! And yes I have ived in mandurah for many years and fish it every weekend !!!

[breamin']

You would have to have your head buried pretty deep in the sand if you don't know or haven't heard of the annual algal blooms and fish kills on the Serp and Murray , over the last how many years ?..... and does it look like getting any better??.......... any theories on why the 50+ fish are like rocking horse waste, when fish at 40 could be 20 years old .

And yes the fact I am on the river very regularly does give a bit of a better insight on to what state it's in .

As far as swimming with the dolphins ........ lucky you , I peddle with them .

The point I was making is the bream would have to negate several kilometres of OPEN WATER , as in country barren of structure with literally dozens of dolphins patrolling that very same water daily and your saying the bream will play hidy with them , keep believing that one .;)

Your lucky to live and dive on the worlds best river , I live on a river where every breeding fish counts .mate i live up guilford way and the algae bloom there was the worst in any river system in perth but now it has turned around so come have look at what the uni's are doing cause if it was as bad as you say they would be doing the same in your river so do your home work cause you come back with no evidence of your complaints except you fish and paddle the river do you know any scientist that study this so called algae bloom.. mate not being smart but up our way they have had to put air rators in the river and yes Steve i'm serious about bream swimming several km's a day there is scientific evidence of how far fish go in there life phone the uni's and they will answer your worry's and if they think it's a problem they will do something about it there hobby is studying thing's like this mate i'm hearing you like everyone else on here but a few phone calls will rest your concern

[breamin']

Steve i dive in your river regulary i'll gladly show you how bad it is up guilford way and i'm sure you'll change your mind,,

[brad mcdonald]

Sorry Brad , I'm just calling it as I see it .

All Ive been reading on here is reason why the fish you catch from the river cant be put back in the river instead of over the marina.

Truth is you's like the MOSFC as a venue , what happens to the bream after the weigh in seems to matter little , so you release them ...... good on ya's.......... how many that have commented on this thread actually live here , speak up , maybe we can meet up and have a fish together and I can put my point across on the water and then see if you still disagree.

What happens next year when Fisheries WA review their translocation policies and decided what you guys are doing is suddenly unacceptable to them and make it illegal to translocate fish from the river system.

Do you stop having bream comps in the river systems ????

Sure you's will !, my money is on you guys working out how to do exactly what I've been asking you's to consider.

My knowledge on how comps are run has nothing to do with the points I've been making , beat up on me all you like guys , doesn't change the facts you's are pulling fish that may well be critical breeding stock out of a system already under pressure .

Go pat yourselves on the back guys.:rolleyes:

there are so many holes in this serries of statements i hardly know how to respond, or if its even worth it, wasting key strokes and all that.

1 - just calling its as you see it - obviously, but i offered a way for your opinions to be taken more serriuosly, but your position appears to be "i live here so i know all"

2 - you's like the MOSFC - no angler gets a say steve, we (although i have not fish a comp for 3 years i'll still use we) are told where the weigh in is and thats that. but you would already know that if you found out a little about the comps as i sugested.

3 - translocation - yep if the law changes the comps will as well, but translocation refers to disconected systems last time i checked. ie moving redfin perch from dam to dam.

4 - the system - its the same system from pinjarra (wier) all the way to the ocean in mandurah or dawsville all the way up the serp all the way up the harvey even munginup swamp all the same system.

5 - knowledge of comps nothing to do with it - ummmmm nah your just wrong on that one, you are sugesting "a better way" to run them so your knowledge is def rellevant. i think what you ment to say is along the lines of "i wont let my lack of knowledge of comps efect my opinion of them or how they are run"

6 - pulling breeding fish out of the system - come on ... where do they breed? wheres your research? i've caught milking bream (ie fish primed up to breed) in pure salt water in freo, mandurah & albany. to suggest that they wont breed cause they are closer to the salt ..... flawed to say the least. oh and the "system" part of that one is covered in point 4.

there is more but its sunday and i should be fishing not dodging work typing on here....

[john & shayne]

Simple solution, run the comps from the Ravo instead, would stop the trailering issue to a point. What does the offshore club offer anyway, your not allowed in the bar with thongs, and last time it was closed for their AGM. Just an idea, or am I about to be bashed as well as Steve by all the experts :D

[brad mcdonald]

the punch ups at the ravo were allways an added bonus when WABT ran them from there ..... ah good times good times :D

[john & shayne]

the punch ups at the ravo were allways an added bonus when WABT ran them from there ..... ah good times good times :D

And times change ;)

[brad mcdonald]

BTW - for whats its worth.

i'm all for revamping the comps or trying something new .... but for the right reasons, justified well though out reasons, thats all.

[brad mcdonald]

And times change ;)

tell me about it - i had twins and cant find time to fish comps anymore :(

[john & shayne]

BTW - for whats its worth.

i'm all for revamping the comps or trying something new .... but for the right reasons, justified well though out reasons, thats all.

Maybe this is the shot in the arm that the comps require, but then again I wouldn't want to upset the gravy train Brad

[Ben Scott]

the punch ups at the ravo were allways an added bonus when WABT ran them from there ..... ah good times good times :D

i remember that. richo had to jump in to save the bloke :D

what a night that was :D

[brad mcdonald]

ah yes - and dont forget the two "ladies" punching on the night before the grand final ...... was a points desision that one!

[chrislocke]

are bream fairly migratory? or are they like jacks or cod and will return to the same place they were caught?

[Shortytheyakker]

They did a study in Melbourne and had electronic montitoring stuff set up,one bream travelled 25km ,i can't remember if it was in a day or over a period of time.

I would love to find out more about the habits of Mandurah bream, at some stages of the season the rivers are quiet and town is firing,i believe its in part to a lot of river fish moving into town for a period of time,a tagging program would help comfirm this or dispel it.

[chrislocke]

They did a study in Melbourne and had electronic montitoring stuff set up,one bream travelled 25km ,i can't remember if it was in a day or over a period of time.

I would love to find out more about the habits of Mandurah bream, at some stages of the season the rivers are quiet and town is firing,i believe its in part to a lot of river fish moving into town for a period of time,a tagging program would help comfirm this or dispel it.

i would be very interested also!

[shano]

wow this thread went a long way:confused:

[Yakkafella]

Personally, I am really surprised at your comments Steve. I think that Bream Anglers are a blessing to the Bream, not a burden. These guys catch and release the majority of their fish, which is something that was not happening 20 years ago, and the Bream all ended up on the table. A new culture was born, and the enviromentally minded fishos decided to catch and release, which is becoming a growing trend. I have been doing some reading lately regarding the Black Bream, and I have found that these fish never leave the estuary/river system in their whole lifespan, and I have also found that some tagged and tracked Bream, have been travelling upto 3000kms in one year. The report also noted that it found that Bream do not stay in the one location for more than one week, most times, only a 2 or 3 days.

I think it is important to do your research properly before trying to change competition rules and practises, and upset people whom are already doing a terrific job caring for our fishery.

[steve anderson]

Recently I expressed concerns with the relocation of bream from the Murray and Serpentine rivers systems for weigh in purposes during the bream comps .


I would like to suggest the organisers have a look at options available to weigh the fish on the river system they were caught in and release those fish back into that system.

With the increase in comps and competitors this year it seems irresponsible to me to have a comp with the potential to collectively remove dozens of breeding stock from a system already suffering big annual fish kills and regular bait fishing to deplete numbers.

The comp can still have it's presentation over the marina , the only difference would be the fish stay where they belong.

I'm hoping this will be given some serious consideration by those organising the series of tournaments and help set a new standard for bream fishing in WA .

Regards
Steve Anderson



This was what I asked guys .

As is the nature of web sites every word is scrutinized to the empth degree and those not in favour have their say .

What I tried to say is no more than (I hope) any one of you would do if you thought something on the river system you fish could be done better.

Suddenly the whole debate turns to the posters lack of science , lack of knowledge of comps and accusations of no ability to fish.

I believe what I'm saying , I believe since the Cut the dolphin population of the Peel has grown to the point where numbers are now nearing 100 permanent residents , leaving little chance of the bream you release over the marina to make it back to the river.

I've had many conversations with bream fisho's (some of which have commented on this thread ) as to why the Peel has no flats bream or flathead , despite having that option available on the Swan and rivers to the south .... ask yourself what that reason might be , could it be the dolphin population predation keeps the bream in the river (where there is cover) and the flathead just dont get a chance to establish themselves .

No , I have no science , just saying this is what I see, I'm fully aware the other systems have dolphin populations , but I have my doubts they are in the numbers the Peel holds.

Are the bream taken really that important ? where's the science to say they are not .

I believe they are guys , I'm not saying dont have the comp , I'm not bagging competitors , I'm not even asking for a huge change in the format , just the one thing I think is important ........ Putting the big fish back in the river , not the marina.



Just a little footage to consider , means nothing more than I do spend time with the pods to know what they get up to and not just being alarmist.

http://s832.photobucket.com/albums/zz248/boatfish/Dolphins%20on%20the%20Murray/

[Online store]

Not sure why I am posting again after being called an idiot?

Peel Harvey estuary system supports 11 (eleven) commercial licenses and you wonder why there are no bream on the flats?

Typically flats systems (or at least the better ones) only exist where there has been very little or no commercial fishing. Might be where your flatties are as well!

Ian.

[steve anderson]

See , here we go again .

Of those 11 commercial licenses , how many actually net fish or are they mainly chasing crabs??
How many are permanent year round working fishing licenses?
How many of the few that do net , use a net size that will net a bream?
Or do they use a net size that targets whiting??

When was the last time a commercial sold bream that he netted in the Peel (look at the fisheries 20011 catch figures for the Peel)

What about the masses of rec netters ?

And if your right , doesn't that just add to what I'm saying about the threat to bream released over the marina?



You really should look into that one a bit closer ;).

[Online store]

Geez I forgot about all the rec nets as well!

And you are worried about us displacing a few fish?

Go fight your fight with the people who do not care about the fish or the rivers, or the river systems.

You say the Pros are fine yet you seem to want to make enemies of us?

Ian.