Cat amongst the pigeons

[steve anderson]

We have an upcoming ABT comp on the Peel/Murray and I'd like to throw some thoughts up for debate regarding where the tournament weigh in will be .

To the best of my knowledge the weigh in will be over at the marina , this is fine for fish caught in the Mandurah area , but what of the Murray fish that will effectively be translocated across the estuary to be weighed in ?.

This may not concern to many folks , but to a degree it does me due to the fact the Murray is my home turf .
At the moment most of the big fish are in roe the smaller fish are milting when handled , pretty obvious it breeding season on the Murray.

If we get the 30 odd teams I have been hearing will fish the comp and each fisher gets the bag for the weigh in over the comps duration this could account for a swag of big females being taken from the Murray system while possibly being full of roe .

True there may well be another swag of females to take their place , but is it really necessary to have the weigh in over at the marina for the Murray fish ? or has this issue been addressed, if so please disregard this post .
I have found it hard to get any info on what will be done on the day.

I will be away up north so will miss the comp , just interested in folks views , one gets a tad protective of ones turf:)

[Dan Walter]

So are you suggesting Murray caught fish get weighed else where? I'm pretty sure it won't affect the stocks up your way. Think about a place like the Hawkesbury or the GC area where fish get caught nearly 2 hours away, it has no great affect.

Also it's WA Classics event that is affiliated with ABT not an ABT event just run under ABT insurance (correct me if I'm wrong there someone)

[Online store]

Hi Steve, it is certainly an interesting thought, and something I have dwelled upon for many years of tournament fishing. I did do a bit of investigation and was prompted to put in a submission for a grant to tag fish with radio transmitters to see just what they actually did.

In different species overseas these trials were done (I can not recall what or where) but it suggested that the fish were back in the area they were caught from within 24 hrs or less much to the researchers surprise.

It would not be at all surprising to me if the majority of fish made their way back up the river to where they came from... Lets face it fish have amazing senses, Atalantic salmon go to sea and return up the same river they were born in, lamp ray eels disapear off the continental shelf, then return up rivers years later to breed.

If you have the time and a not for profit organization to support you, I am sure you would find plenty of willing helpers. The research information would be beneficial Australia wide.

Ian.

[Housey]

If 40 teams were to enter, and all 40 bag out 4 fish, which in an august murray comp always seems to be hardest of the year, we're only talking about the translocation of 160 fish max, which will be released to still spawn.

Seems a pretty small number compared to what the catch community would take out of the system over the entire part of the spawn :confused:

[Mark M]

...
It would not be at all surprising to me if the majority of fish made their way back up the river to where they came from...Ian.

Some great research done on this in the Gippsland Lakes several years ago, more tagging being done now by Vic Fisheries.

" Bream regularly move up and down the rivers, and among the rivers. In fact, the movements are so frequent, and sometimes so large, that some fish are moving more than 3000 km in little more than a year. For example, Fish 1225 was tagged and released at the Johnsonville boat ramp on the 9th of March 2005. After release, this fish moved between the Tambo, Nicholson and Mitchell Rivers frequently, covering at least 3,200 km up until it was last detected at Swan Reach, on the Tambo River, at 4.30 am on the 28th of June 2006...."

One could even track their favourite bream during this trial :)

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/vro/vrosite.nsf/pages/marine_fish_tracking_black_bream

[steve anderson]

If 40 teams were to enter, and all 40 bag out 4 fish, which in an august murray comp always seems to be hardest of the year, we're only talking about the translocation of 160 fish max, which will be released to still spawn.

Seems a pretty small number compared to what the catch community would take out of the system over the entire part of the spawn :confused:

Cant speak for other guys ability to score big bream on the Murray Housey but certainly I dont have any trouble , very few trips I dont score a few 350- 400mm+ fish which at the moment anything that size is in full roe
I figure the guys that fish the comp will have half a clue what they are doing and work the same area I fish,(there's been enough prefishing it;)) my concern is that as you say 160 big females could be translocated over to the marina when they should be left to spawn in the Murray, especially if they are targeted in the lower reaches.
Cant be that hard to set up a weigh in station at say Rivergum ramp in Sth Yunderup or the Nth Yunderup ramp just for the guys that fish the Murray.

It would seem to be the responsible path to take .

Thanks for the PM's guys.:)

[paul r]

have had the same thoughts steve,and have made mention of it to craig,my biggest concern is that if the fish do travell back to the river from the marina,thay have to get through the pro netters and the wedsnday night netting amatures,and there are a lot of fish in the town cannals,but are they still able to breed ?tally up all the fish that have been caught since the comps have run here and it is more than a few fish,and most are the big breeders,it is worth thinking about,should we be putting them back fom the areas they were caught

cheers paul

[vegasbreamman]

I agree with steve. I am positive that those fish we have been releasing in the ocean marina never leave! There are stacks in there

[shano]

I dont have any problem with the weigh in being where its currently held. It has good exposure, great facilities (pub:D) and convenient seating and tables. Its a perfect facility after a long day fishing on the water.
I guess the only way you will find out where the bream go is to put tracking devices into them and record their movements. Otherwise any theories are just guesses.

[steve anderson]

How about a comprise , set a weigh in up at the river mouth .
Plenty of room for a pop up shade and some chairs tables (eskies) .
Folks can weigh in there have the weights recorded, photo's taken few drinks etc.

Fisher folk head back up to where they launch when finished , weigh in folks shoot back across the system to the marina with the relevant info.

Fisher folks drive back to marina to the award ceremony backslapping yer har piss up .........

Then we know for sure the bream are in the right spot with minimal impact on them.

Just a thought.

[Housey]

I hear you steve, don't worry about that, for me personally I think there need's to be more done on the bigger picture of the peel inlet the serp and the murray, improving the the overall health of the systems to improve all aspects of aquatic life, not just for the bream tourny's.

Last years august classic only saw 32 fish come from 34 teams, and how many of those where directly from the murray is unknown, but a spawning fish any where is invaluable, is the situation actually that dire ?. Just curious ?.

[steve anderson]

I agree with on on the Peel Housey , believe me I have put quite a few years into arguing for a better deal for recfishers and resource sharing within the system ........ unfortunately with very little support .

I dont really think the bream issue is that dire , I just think it's the responsible thing to do, as sporting recfishers I believe we should be setting the standard :)

Also it would avoid giving any ammo to the opposition to be used in future negotiations , because when it comes to sitting around the table they know every trick in the book and how to use it.

Cheers
Steve.

[Online store]

Only if you post it up in public forums...

I can not see a problem, if you move the fish and they all live in the canals they can all make friends and breed down there if they decide they do not want to swim back home.

From what I know the fish will move to an area where the salinity and temperature is at its prime for the fish to spawn ie where the fresh and the salt give the ideal breeding environment, I can not see this happening in town (no frsh water flow, or certainly not enough) so would think that these fish will all have to do the treck yp the serpy or the murray at some time or another if they want to have their bit of action...

Bream are also opportunistic spawners so even if you catch them mid spawn they are able to hold off on laying more eggs for days, weeks and even months. (they do this naturally anyway) They do not spawn all at once but spread spawning over a longer periods of differing occasions and places to ensure that at least some of their eggs might survive.

This is certainly a mountain out of a mole hill, the fish know what has to be done and what to do to get it done.

If it was a catch and kill comp then yes there would be concerns!

However it is not!

[steve anderson]

Truth is we would not have a clue what happens to the translocated bream , salinity factors like coming from a river flowing heavily with fresh being release in a pure salt environment, fish most likely roe being released in a largely barren environment infested with blowies , you say it's no big deal and I asked for a debate on the issue............ all good .

I live on the Murray , fish it almost daily , the big fish I'm getting at the moment are bursting at the seams


<a href="http://s832.photobucket.com/albums/zz248/boatfish/My%20killer%20pink%20lure/?action=view&amp;current=P1010343.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz248/boatfish/My%20killer%20pink%20lure/P1010343.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I'm just pointing out that it would be ridiculously simple to leave them in the environment they are part of and minimise our impact .

You still get your presentation at your venue , just without the fish release .

Long way from making a mountain out of a mole hill :)

[yellow door 1]

If you're catching them in clean saltwater and taking them back up a floody, muddy, river to weigh them - in my experience - you should give them a long burst of saltwater - then switch off the circulating live well pump until they're weighed.

Sucking in fresh muddy water can make them swim upside down:)

[Ben Scott]

i had the opportunity to read a little article that was done on tracking tags on bream in the bremmer bay inlet down here east of albany. they move a long way. i was really surprised. some sat in the same spot for weeks they traveled up to 10km i think it was. it really surprised me.

one bream didnt move an inch and was presumed dead until it moved after 3 weeks

i have had the same thoughts with the albany bream. the amount that are now around the marina suggest they dont always go back

[Shortytheyakker]

We could put the bream in a large live well tank at the end of the Comp and transport the bream back to the Murray if it was a real concern for folks :)

[phil jagger]

Hi Steve,

If you are concerned about the well-being of re-locating the fish during the tournament, you would also have to ask yourself the question; Does the capture, holding of the fish in an alien environment for hours, then having them out of the water for prolonged periods of time while they are being weighed affect the fish too?

This would/should be of more concern than that of re-locating fish while spawning if so.

Phil

[steve anderson]

I've put a suggestion up that would see the bream weighed , photographed and returned to the same neck of the woods they came from with the minimum time frame Phil .

While the other points you raised may concern me, I figure if my suggestion doesn't get the nod then there is no point bringing up your concerns .

Gotta keep the sponsors happy:rolleyes:

[phil jagger]

Definitely, my points would never even get a look in because it would mean the end of tournament fishing.

Photo and release would definitely be the best option for the fish, but would say, a nightmare to police.

I suppose the best option for those that are concerned about the well-being of the fish caught in the current tournament format would be not to support them. But that probably won't happen either, because people want (and like) to fish tournaments.

[Online store]

Have you got your net license yet Phil??

[phil jagger]

ha! Will be joining the Murray netting party night next week!