Netting and Marine Parks.

Method to my madness?

Ok - I've been hard on CALM of late with many posts and they are taking a bit of a pasteing in the press this week.

Now lets take a look at the "big picture!"

I'm sure Ira and others will remember all the meetings with Fisheries, the Pro netter from Augusta, WAFIC rep and so on over netting the Hardy Inlet on the Blackwood river over the last 12 months.

Goodnesss knows while I sometimes write a fair bit, IRA's done a first class job, getting the issue into public prominence with his editors column in DohDohDoh magazine.

Now after all those meetings and so on, just what has eventuated from Fisheries WA after all the gabfests?

On 2nd May Peter Rogers wrote to me thanking us all for our participartion in the consultative process regarding management arrangements for the Hardy Inlet Estuarine Fishery.

The Fisheries Minister Kim Chance, considered all the opinions presented in the first round of consultation.
Consequently he requested Fisheries WA develop a paper outlininga more comprehensive range of options for management of the fishery as a basis for further consultation.

Peter Rogers anticipated the paper would be available for comment by May30. The minister was to gove carefull consideration to the matters raised in submissions in determining his position.

Peter Rogers said he looked forward to our continued participation in the consultation process.

After that on May 12, I recieved a letter from Fisheries Dept asking permission to utilise Charter Ops catch return Statistics in preparing the discussion paper - to which I assented.

Thats it....October and still nuthin!!!!

The Paper was to be ready by May 30...:rolleyes:

In March and April while Fisheries Department were "assuring us" that papers were being drawn up for discussion, CALM called adverts in 6 newspapers asking for sumbmissions of interest to participate as for committee member for the Proposed "CAPES" marine Park.

Now during that orocess the Reserves area has been "extended southward" around Cape Leeuwin to include the Hardy inlet. :rolleyes:

Just WHO is in charge of managing the fish and waters of this state?...

It appears VERY much to me at least that the Govt has run off the rails in as far as deciding WHICH department should be dealing with the issues and Fisheries dept have fumbled the ball and handballed it thru the "too hard basket" to the CALM department to create a marine park out of it (thus largely ignoring the wishes of recreational anglers and charter boat operators who service those recreational anglers).

Are we not entitled to ask where that "discussion paper" supposedly created by Fisheries WA is?

I mean - we all took time off work, travelled hundreds of kilometers out of our way to participate and contribute, so in fact we have some vested interest (read ownership) of the process - and yet we have no "discussion paper".

What about the Environment Ministers appointed Marine park Draft Management plan committee, overseen (and some would say being indoctrinated by) CALM?.. Do they get to see this paper supposedly produced by Fisheires WA, containing ALL of the opinions and concerns of all the affected parties in the process?????????????????

Is that WHY.....Fisheries WA haven't as yet produced the promised discussion paper after 5 months?

Is it a DELIBERATE act on behalf of the State Government, Fisheires WA and Environment Ministers to keep the affected stakeholder parties (Recreational Fishermen, Charter Operators, and Netters) OUT of the decision making process for management of the Hardy inlet?

I CALL PUBLICLY on the Premier of this State Geoff Gallup to please explain to recreational anglers of this state, the failings of His Fisheries Minister & Fisheries Department, Environment Minister And Department of CALM to satisfy the recreational anglers of WA in regards to provision of the promised discussion paper, as well as the underhanded way the Marine parks Committee have been appointed and the planning process is currently being run.

I call PUBLICLY on the Opposition to HOLD our Ministers and their respective departments ACCOUNTABLE to the citizens for their failings.

I CALL PUBLICLY on YOU the recreational Anglers of this state, to EMAIL ALL OF THESE PEOPLE, as well as the press DEMANDING that accountability be restored to our Government and their depart,ments and that the respective Minsietrs andeartment heads be CENSURED for their FAILURE to deliver as promised to the people of WA the services they are PAID very well from the public purse to provide.

In the event this doesn't occur - I will call on the Ombudsman to investigate the performance of these departments within their legislated obligations to the community.

Quote from Premier Geoff Gallups Web Page:

A fundamental commitment of my Government is that we will be open and accountable.

Sincerely

Shann Low
Blackwood Fly Fishing Charters
Nannup Western Australia
Licensed Fisheries Dept Charter Guide Lic 80 & 194 (South Coast, West
Coast & Gascoyne regions)
16ft Barra Punt SPV Surveyed Passenger Vessel "Steelhead Maru"
Qualified Coxswain, Full Public Liability Insurance.
As Seen on Bushy N Starlo's "Hooked on Adventures" TV Show
Freshwater Trout, Estuary Bream and Saltwater Salmon Fly Fishing Safari's
on Blackwood and Donelly Rivers and South Coast beaches, Saltwater Fly
Fishing packages to Shark Bay & Abrolhos Islands.
Ph/Fax A/h 08 97 561207
Ph Bus Hrs 08 97 561365
Sat Mob 0404 271 203
http://www.compwest.net.au/~troutman
email: troutman@compwest.net.au
Fisheries, Forestry and Environmental Consultant.
Freelance Fishing Journalist.
Former CALM Forester & Wildlife Officer
P.O. Box 9
Nannup W.A. 6275

Email List to contact:-

Government

Hon Dr Geoff Gallup,
Premier of Western Australia
wa-government@dpc.wa.gov.au

Minister for Environment, Dr Judy Edwards:-
judy-edwards@dpc.wa.gov.au

Minister for Fisheries, Hon Kim Chance
kim-chance@dpc.wa.gov.au

Executive Director Fisheries WA Peter Rogers
progers@fish.wa.gov.au

Executive Director CALM Dr Kieran McNamarra
janr@calm.wa.gov.au

Opposition

Member for Warren Hon Paul Omodei
pbodswor@mp.wa.gov.au


Media

Golden West Network (GWN)
news@gwn.com.au

Network 10 Charmaine Dragun
CDragun@networkten.com.au

West Australian Newspapers
outdoors@wanews.com.au

ABC Liam Bartlett
liam@your.abc.net.au

And anyone else you can think of! ;)

Feel free to copy and paste any or all of the above points into your own emails and get em happening people - this is too important to just leave it to the beaurecrats - they obviously have their OWN agenda (which includes removing YOUR right to fish) - and it's up to us to set OUR agenda squarely in the public arena via the press if we wish to preserve our rights to fish for the future.

Cheers!

[chaser]

GREAT WORK
keep it up
cheers chaser

Our Ref : 200315435

Dear Mr Low

On behalf of the Premier, we acknowledge receipt of your email regarding the management of the Hardy Inlet (Blackwood River) at Augusta.

The matters you raise are being examined and the Premier will reply to you as soon as possible.

Regards
WA Govt


Geeze - I feel SO MUCH better now - knowing that "Good News" - er, better make that "Genial Geoff" is right on top of it now! :rolleyes:

Does anyone besides me ever get the phunny feeling that the "ship of state" is adrift, rudderless in an ocean of incompetence, with absolutely No One at the helm??????????

We can all sleep tight in our beds tonight safe n secure in the knowledge that the Govt of WA is looking after our affairs! :rolleyes: :p

Cheers!

[chaser]

yes well ive had "a bit" of time on my hands latley and ive been doing a bit of reeding ........
and well trouty that rudderless boat is gunna run aground .......:mad:
chaser
(keep up the great work)

Our ref: 23236

Thank you for your correspondence of 16 October, 2003 to Dr Judy Edwards MLA, Minister for the Environment concerning water of the Hardy Inlet.

Your correspondence is receiving attention and Dr Edwards will respond as soon as possible.

Looks like everyones right on top of it now.

I'm so much more relieved now. :rolleyes:

Cheers!

Well unless delaying tactics are part of their game plan I'd say it's in the too hard basket!

I noticed this little gem from the Western Angler web site (Hope Ian doesn't mid me reproducing it here as it relates to the issue at hand i.e. Marine Parks).

I received this e-mail from CALM in relation to this topic along with a request to post it on this forum. Some of my comments are listed below Alan's message.

Hi Ian,
A post recently appeared on the Western Angler Walpole-Nornalup Inlets discussion forum claiming that CALM are intending to create sanctuary zones in the proposed Inlets reserve, irrespective of community consultation. This is not the case.

Any plans or specific proposals for the Inlets will be developed by a Focus Group of local Walpole-Manjimup community, stakeholder, and Government agency representatives, with the assistance of scientists that have specific knowledge of the region. Until the findings of this group are delivered, management options for the proposed reserve are entirely open.
This focus group is currently being formed, and is likely to have its first discussions in November.

To minimise the confusion generated by this posting, would it be possible to place a clarifying statement by CALM on this section of the discussion forum?

Regards,
Dr Alan Kendrick
Marine Planning Officer
Marine Conservation Branch
Department of Conservation and Land Management
47 Henry St. Fremantle, 6160
Tel: 9336 0121 Fax: 9430 5408

G'day Alan

I'm more than happy to post your response on your behalf. But I should say that I've recently had discussions with CALM Marine Protection Branch personnel, including Dr Chris Simpson and I believe anglers concerns are real. The idea of using a local group to "design" the marine park is not acceptable to me, or many of my colleagues. The wider community needs to be adequately accommodated too, and this doesn't mean commenting on a draft plan either. After all the resource that a no-take areas may stop access to is a common property. Allocating it to non-extractive interests is a resource allocation and there should be a very much different process for that. Food for thought......

The recreational fishing community is a very diverse group of individuals ranging from the relaxed bait soaker with his kids, through the freezer filler to the catch and release conservationists. To ban one of these groups from an area within a marine park on the basis of what another does hardly rewards existing responsible fishing practises.

In my opinion it would be great if the marine planning process could be reviewed as a matter of urgency because neither recreational anglers nor fish can see the lines CALM may draw on a chart. Without wide recreational fishing support the outcomes are doomed to failure unless CALM has millions of dollars for compliance. This is a view that again I have previously put to Chris.

I would ask that you continue to adequately consider both the process and the group (recreational fishers) as the planning process proceeds further. There is an underlying responsible attitude amongst the vast majority on recreational fishers these days. This is something we've achieved ourselves and we expect, yes expect, it to be rewarded in a considerate planning process.

Please keep communicating on the Walpole-Nornalup process because as we have proven over the years if we like it we can be great supporters of an equitable planning process.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Ian

What concernes me is that again CALM are publicly claiming "open ness and public input" while "THEY" select their "Hand Selected" community focus group participants....just as they have done with the CAPES region planning process.

Notice it's only Manji and Walpole locals - where do mosty of CALMs staff reside?..Manjimup & Walpole- one wonders how many of their 'own staff' will stack this committee focus group?.

Wheres the "Key Stakeholder" members from Perth, Recfishest, Breammasters, Charter Ops????? and so on....It's laughable.

Tonight I've emailed a few people (Including a lawyer) to see if theres any way the recreational fishing community (industry) can get say a court injunction to stop the current flawed marine Parks Planning process.

I'm also exploring options for a "damages class action suit" on behalf of anyone (anglers, charter ops, tackle retailers & wholesalers, fishing media, fishing clubs etc) who LOSES current legal access to ANY waters declared a marine park in WA that they currently enjoy.

The way I see it - the only way we can REALLY find out what ecological "VALUES" the proposed Marine Parks have is to ascribe a dollar value to the resource in terms of what the Government & CALM will be willing to PAY in cold hard cash for these desired extensive marine Parks reserves, banning rec angling.

IF they have to PAY to get their hands on these Marine tenures then MAYBE they will think a bit longer and harder about just what values they wish to preserve and how much they are prepared to pay to do just that.

At the moment this whole issue for CALM is just a BIG FREE OCEAN GRABFEST, I figure if we FORCE them to pay for every last square inch they may be a little more discriminating about just what they really NEED, as compared to what the really WANT.

At the moment theres very little hard science to support the notion that fully 1/3rd of the worlds oceans and rivvers need to be locked up in vast contiguous reserves. It's all 'feel good' motherhood type generalisations so far with no sound science to back it up.

We will see what comming days bring.

If Govt would only talk to us - we wouldn't need to resort to an adversarial type confrontationist approach. You can't sat it isn't like they haven't had every opportunity to do so - we've made the effort to write - they however have chosen to stonewall in the hope that we will go away.

Maybe they will get MORE inclined to talk once the lawyers start talking dollars...

I can't see any other option at this point in time.

The planning process marches on while we are ignored totally.

Obviously we have to do SOMETHING to get noticed...lets see what happens if we get a court injunction stopping their lanning process.

Anyone whos interested can get my 17 page submission to the Capes Planning committee bye PM or emailing me, I WON'T waste bandwidth by posting it here..(unless you all want to wade thru it.?)

The only question that remains - is will the rec fishing 'industry' leaders support my push to get the beaks involved.

Cheers!

well today I recieved a response in the mail (dated 30 Oct)

I post it in it's entirety for all to read.

My comments follow:

Dear Mr Low

Thank you for your correspondence to the Premier concerning the management of fisheries in the Hardy Inlet / Blackwood River system.

As Minister for Fisheries, responsibility for management of the State’s fisheries clearly rests with me and my Department. In developing management arrangements, I am committed to ensuring consultation with stakeholders and the wider community.

As you are aware, a wide range of matters were raised at the stakeholder meetings that you attended. The two key issues arising were the sustainability of black bream stocks and competition for this resource between competing user groups. I understand that the various stakeholders at these meetings had differing views on many of these matters, and the consultation process around the discussion paper will hopefully clarify these further.

In order to allow for informed discussion of these matters, I believe it is important to ensure that all available information is presented in the discussion paper. This has necessitated the Departments research area analysing all available biological and fishery dependant data to provide as assessment of the sustainability of the stock. In addition, the Department has been awaiting the research results from the restocking project being undertaken by Murdoch University, which has only recently become available.
Analysis of all the available information is essential to provide an assessment of sustainability of black bream stocks and to assist in allowing informed discussion around resource sharing concerns.

The paper is currently being finalised for publication and I anticipate it will be available for public comment in November.

I have instructed the Department to ensure you are sent a copy of the discussion paper and look forward to your submission.

Yours sincerely

Kim Chance MLC
Minister For Agriculture Forestry & Fisheries.
30 Oct 2003

My thoughts???

well, the answer contains no comment at all about the fact that subsequent actions by this government with regard to creation of Marine Parks including the Hardy Inlet may well make any "discussions paper released moot anyway, whats the need to discuss resource sharing issues if NO ONE is allowed to fish in the Hardy inlet any more?

IMHO - this is just delaying tactics while CALM do the Govts dirty work and solve the problem by kickeing ALL fishers pro and rec alike outta the Hardy inlet for good.

After meetings and discussions - the Fisheries departments going to produce ANOTHER discussion paper for public comment?...

At what point does someone in charge with some balls start making a few decisions?????

After the Parks declared and it mno longer matters a tinkers cuss?

We PAY these people a LOT of money people and we are getting precious little in return IMHO.

A rudderless ship...adrift in a sea of incompetence with imbeciles at the helm.:mad:

Bye the time anyone makes any bloody decisions - the next election will be over, the Blackwood will have been pumped dry of it's fresh water, the Wheatbelt salty water will have been drained down the Blackwood, the Marron will all be dead, the bream too, and the Hardy will be a Marine Park with not ONE living organism left in it to be "protected"! :rolleyes:

I re-iterate that I have ZERO faith left in this Governments abilitys to manage our precious natural resources on our and our Childrens behalfs, and predict the Swan River Fishkills last year were just the START of what will become an 'annual event' that will grow steadily worse until all living organisms in our waterways are dead.. :(

Cheers!

So wheres the paper from Kim Chance? :rolleyes:

Got this from Judy Edwards a few days ago tho.

Mr low etc

Re Proposed Geograph bay / Leeuwin Naturalist/ Hardy Inlet Marine Conservation Reserve Planning process.

Thank you for your email of 26 Sept 2003 regarding the planning process for the proposed (above) reserve. I also acknowledge the copy of the email dated 27 September adddreessed to dr Jessica Meeuwig.

I note that you have been involved in the planning process to date, and that you have a number of complaints about the manner in which it is being handled by the dept of CALM which provides support for the community advisory committee.

I have sought advice from the Dept on the complaints you made regarding the distribution of minutes of the fiorst meeting held on 2-3 September. I am informed tha at that time that the minutes of that meeting were ready for circulation, not all sector reference groups had been formally established. Consequently the minutes and outputs were forwarded to members of the Advisory Committee and sector reference group leaders who at Sept 12 had been confirmed.

inutes and outputs were also forwarded to Observers. I am informed that the sectior reference group to which you belong had not at this point been confirmed.

A second mail out of minutes and outputs was made on 26 September to the remainder of the sector reference groups, wityh a note that the date for the reciept of comments on the outputs from both groups had been extended to 31 October.

In terms of content I understand that the matters addressed in these minutes primarily relate to the early part of the consultative process and as such, a minor delay in recieipt of these should have no significant impact on your ability to be involved fully in the planning consultation.

I have confidence in the staff of the Dept of Conservation andLand Management to undertake the role they play in ther planning process in a highly professional manner.

As you are aware, there is also the iopportunity for personal input during the 3 month statuatory consultation period, once the indicative management plan has been formulated.

Thank you for your continued interest in the marine reserves planning process, and in particular for your input to the Capes process. i trust that you will work cooperatively with other stakeholders to ensure we have a balanced outcome from this.

Yours sincerley

Dr Judy Edwards MLA
Minister for the Environment

So - you see - the Minister has confidence in her Staff at CALM to manage the process in a professional way. Sadly I don't share her confidence having worked in the organisation.

The 'damning evidence' is that - the minutes werent sent out when tyhey should have been - meetings (indoctrination) of the community advisory committe was taking place by those so called professionals at CALM, while they didn't even have the necessary sector reference groups of stakehoilders in place...

This is NOT a professional way to runa consultative planning process - normally you would get your ducks in a row BEFORE you set about outining the process and steps to be followed so that those stakeholders can HAVE some input.

We've seen eviodence that CALM rescinded Recfishwests invitiation to attent and have input on behalf of rec Anglers to the committee...

Again, this is NOT what I consider a professional way to run a consultative process it is more accurately described as trying to influence the outcome...towartd the direction CALM are setting out deliberately to achieve.

Hopefully anglers will remember the good Doctor Judy Edwards misplaced confidence in her most un professional behaviour CALM
Staff, when the next election is due and cast their votes accordingly. Perhaps then the good Dr Edwards can reflect upon his misplaced confidence from the backbenches of opposition where her clarity of vision may perhaps not suffer from rose colored glasses, obviously issued to the front bench government minsters! :mad:

Last but not least - the good Dr Genial Geoff has his input.

Dear Mr Low

Thank you for your email of 16 October in respect of management of
fishstocks and waters of the Hardy Inlet.

The Hon Kim Chance, Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries
has clear responsibility for the management of the State's fisheries.
While the Hon Judy Edwards, Minister for the Environment has
responsibility for national and marine parks administered by the
Department of Conservation and Land Management, issues relating to
fishing within parks remain the primary responsibility of the Department
of Fisheries.

The Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, has forwarded for
my information a copy of his reply to you on the matters relevant to his
portfolio. I am satisfied that the fisheries issues you raised have
been addressed.

Thank you for your interest in this matter.

Yours sincerely


DR GEOFF GALLOP MLA
PREMIER

Cheers!

like theres a LOT of politicians with a LOT of faith in all their minions to get the job done but regardless, two months later, still no phukken comments paper is there? despite all the promises from the Fisheries minister that I'd have a copy by November....

The paper is currently being finalised for publication and I anticipate it will be available for public comment in November.

I have instructed the Department to ensure you are sent a copy of the discussion paper and look forward to your submission.

Yours sincerely

Kim Chance MLC

They couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery people - and I think the best thing anglers can do is dump the nets on the bank and burn the bastards.

They are just a bunch a lazy lieing DohDohDohDohDohDohs with their overpaid snouts in our public purse so phuk em all and just take matters into your own hands is my advice.

The Fisheries minister is obviously not a man of his word to be trusted he's just another lieing prick like the rest of em.

Anglers are the only ones can sort out the problems on the river - by takin the law into their own hands - they have given the authorities the chance to get it right and they phukked up and fumbled the ball like always.

Just get on with the bloody job without the pricks then is my advice. I've proven here time and again in writing these pricks just can't be trusted. They don't deserve our trust or obedience any longer - it's every angler for himself.

Burn them nets people (somewhere you wont start a bloody bushfire would be nice, on an island in the middle of the river might work...or pop em into a hessian bag and take em home to burn in ya incinerator or something).

Time for angler action - we've had enough a bein phukked over by Kim Chance and his Fisheries department goons.

Cheers!

And still no discussion paper produced by the Fisheries Minister.

Meanwhile despite alll the assurances and how much faith the Premier has in his ministers...the Marine parks committee for the Leeuwin naturalist marine park are making their zoning decisions about the Hardy inlet.

The fact is - this committee have deliberately had the discussion paper representing the input of the stakeholders deliberately with held from them....during their deliberations period.

Any angler who doesnt realise whats going on should be ashamed...

Your interests are NOT EVEN being considered by the mARINE PARKS COMMITTEE despite the fact that your representatives have had meetings with fISHERIES dEPARTMENT on this for the last 12 months... STILL NO PAPER HAS ISSUED!!!

WHY?

I can tell you why - it's because when they have locked you all OUT of the Hardy inlet as they intend to do - the resource sharing conflict down there will be solved once and for all.

Your being screwed over people - my advice is to write to the Premier as I have and KEEP writing!!!.

Heres his email addy!

WA-Government@dpc.wa.gov.au

Get to it people - and take no prisoners...

Dr Gallup may have confidence in his Environment and Fisheries Ministers, but I for one dont share that same confidence!.

Cheers!

About the netting issue ionthe Blackwood at Augusta?

We all went to these meetings about a year ago - and were sposed to get a public discusssion paper issued by MAy 2003.

When it didn't eventuate, i wrote to the Premier in October, and we were promised the paper in November 2003.

Here it is February 2004 and still no discussion paper for public coments!!!.

The fact is, that the CALM comittee are making zoning deliberations about the Hardy inlet / Blackwood river, when they are totally oblivious to all the stakeholder meetings that took place and all the arguments concerns ect presented, bye those people affected.

HOW can they reach a community acceptable zoning decision for this area 0f ALL this input from affected stakeholders is bening deliberately withheld from the planning committtee?.

I've written AGAIN to the Premier and I encourage you all to do likewise, if you DON'T want to be locked out of the Blackwood Hardy inlet forever by a small committee of hand picked divers greenies and surfies intent on killing of fishing in all it's guises.

The premiers Email is in the post above this.

I encourage you all to write (email) ASAP.. because this isn't good enough!!!

If it's of any interest - this is what I emailed.

Fell free to borrow any ideas in it that you wish for your own emails please.

Dear Doctor Gallup.

Thank you for your response (copy below).

The fact remains - that your confidence in your ministers and departments is obviously badly misplaced.

I refer you to your Fisheries Minsietsr letter to me of 30 October 2003.

Dear Mr Low

Thank you for your correspondence to the Premier concerning the management of fisheries in the Hardy Inlet / Blackwood River system.

As Minister for Fisheries, responsibility for management of the State’s fisheries clearly rests with me and my Department. In developing management arrangements, I am committed to ensuring consultation with stakeholders and the wider community.

As you are aware, a wide range of matters were raised at the stakeholder meetings that you attended. The two key issues arising were the sustainability of black bream stocks and competition for this resource between competing user groups. I understand that the various stakeholders at these meetings had differing views on many of these matters, and the consultation process around the discussion paper will hopefully clarify these further.

In order to allow for informed discussion of these matters, I believe it is important to ensure that all available information is presented in the discussion paper. This has necessitated the Departments research area analysing all available biological and fishery dependant data to provide as assessment of the sustainability of the stock. In addition, the Department has been awaiting the research results from the restocking project being undertaken by Murdoch University, which has only recently become available.
Analysis of all the available information is essential to provide an assessment of sustainability of black bream stocks and to assist in allowing informed discussion around resource sharing concerns.

The paper is currently being finalised for publication and I anticipate it will be available for public comment in November.

I have instructed the Department to ensure you are sent a copy of the discussion paper and look forward to your submission.

Yours sincerely

Kim Chance MLC
Minister For Agriculture Forestry & Fisheries.
30 Oct 2003

[quote]Doctor Gallup - your Fisheries manister has FAILED to provide to me the discussion paper promised in his letter above and it is now some 3.5 months after he suggested it would be released and that he would ensure that I would receive a copy.

The fact is the Minister for the Environments DEPT of CALM have a Marine Parks advisory committe making deliberations now about the zonings of the proposed Leeuwin naturalist marine park...which include the Hardy Inlet and potentially affects the stakeholders who took the time and trouble at their own time & expense to participate in the discussions in both Perth and Augusta almost a year ago now, over resource allocation disputes, at the request of the Fisheries Minister and his Fisheries department.

It is my contention to you Premier, that a denial of natural justice is takling place here. The CALM Committee deliberating on Hardy Inlets inclusion within the marine Park and it's zoning - SHOULD have made available to them - the paper representing the stakeholders interests and concerns in the resource allocation issue over netting of Black bream in the HArdy inlet Blackwood river by the Fisheries Minister!!!.

The fact that they ARE now making zoning decisions while NOT being privvy to that Govt Fisheries Department discussion paper due to the FAILURE of the Minister for Fisheries to make good on his promise is doing a GREAT disservice to all who participated in the discussions.

This just isn't good enough Premier and basically - your accountable.

I want action and I want it NOW.

Put a STOP to the ZONING deliberations by the CALM committee on the Hardy inlet until such time as the committee have been provided with a copy of the Fisheries Ministers discussion paper representing the opinions and concernes of the affected stakeholders.

To deny that information to the commitee during their zoning deliberations is to do a great disservice to all the stakeholders.

I simply won't stand idly by and allow you to get away with it,

I WILL let the Opposition know about it and allow them to ask questions in parliament about it. I WILL encourage my local member of the Opposition to move a "no confidence motion" in the Fisheries and Environment Ministers if I am not satisfied in very short order in this regard, make no mistake!.

As Premier I expect you to keep your eye on the ball - and keep your Ministers to their word in as far as meeting their promises and obligations.

I will effectively lobby the press on this shortcomming if necessary...

Do SOMETHING pro active about it NOW or expect to cop the flak....the buck stops with you Premier and so far I'm far from impressed and share NONE of your confidence in your two above mentioned ministers!.

Sincerely,

Shann Low

Blackwood Fly Fishing Charters
Nannup Western Australia
Licensed Fisheries Dept Charter Guide Lic 80 & 194 (South Coast, West
Coast & Gascoyne regions)
16ft Barra Punt SPV Surveyed Passenger Vessel "Steelhead Maru"
Qualified Coxswain, Full Public Liability Insurance.
As Seen on Bushy N Starlo's "Hooked on Adventures" TV Show
Freshwater Trout, Estuary Bream and Saltwater Salmon Fly Fishing Safari's
on Blackwood and Donelly Rivers and South Coast beaches, Saltwater Fly
Fishing packages to Shark Bay and Dirk Hartog Isl + the Houtman Abrolhos Isld's..
Ph/Fax A/h 61 (0)8 97 561207
Ph Bus Hrs 61 (0) 8 97 561365
Sat Mob 0404 271 203
http://www.compwest.net.au/~troutman
email: troutman@compwest.net.au
Fisheries, Forestry and Environmental Consultant.
Freelance Fishing Journalist. http://www.billfish.tv/download_issue.html
(Download an annual free subscription on me! 4 issues available!)
Former CALM Forester & Wildlife Officer
P.O. Box 9
Nannup W.A. 6275

part 11 follows!

----- Original Message -----
From: "WA-Government" <WA-Government@dpc.wa.gov.au>
To: <troutman@compwest.net.au>
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: Management of Fishstocks and Waters of Hardy inlet(Blackwood River) Augusta WA


Our Ref: 200315435


Dear Mr Low

Thank you for your email of 16 October in respect of management of fishstocks and waters of the Hardy Inlet.

The Hon Kim Chance, Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries has clear responsibility for the management of the State's fisheries.
While the Hon Judy Edwards, Minister for the Environment has responsibility for national and marine parks administered by the
Department of Conservation and Land Management, issues relating to fishing within parks remain the primary responsibility of the Department of Fisheries.

The Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, has forwarded for my information a copy of his reply to you on the matters relevant to his portfolio. I am satisfied that the fisheries issues you raised have been addressed.

Thank you for your interest in this matter.

Yours sincerely


DR GEOFF GALLOP MLA
PREMIER

MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES
(Your Ref: 8-16924)

For your information


"Shann Low" <troutman@compwest.net.au> 16/10/03 5:36 pm

Dear Hon Dr Geoff Gallup
Premier of Western Australia.
Cabinet Members
Executive Directors Fishieres WA & CALM
Opposition member Warren Hon Paul Omodei.
Media

Today I looked at Hon Premier Geoff Gallups Govts Home webpage and noticed this Quote from the page
"A fundamental commitment of my Government is that we will be open and accountable".

This was a statement which I clearly recall Dr Gallup making, when his govt won power at the last election.

I'm writing to all of you today to express my extreme dismay, at the manner in which the issues regardring the management of the Hardy Inlet (Blackwood River) at Augusta, have so far been handled by Both the Fisheries Minister Hon. Kim Chance AND the Minister for Environment Hon. Dr Judy Edwards and their respective executive directors & staff of both the Fisheries Department and Department of Conservation & Land Management.

It would appear if the press is any indication this wek - that CALM
have run totally off the rails.

As a former serving CALM officer - I can't say how much this
dissapoints me personally.

Under Fisheries Dept WA's auspices, many meetings with Fisheries, the Pro netter from Augusta, Western Australian Fisheries Industry Council rep, Fish and Chip shop propietors, Recfishwest, Fishing media interests and so on took place in Augusta and Perth over netting the Hardy Inlet on the Blackwood river over the course of the last last 12 months with a view to resolving resource sharing conflicts between recreational anglers, charter fishing oerators and recreational anglers.

Now after all those meetings and so on, just what has eventuated from Fisheries WA after all the gabfests?

On 2nd May Peter Rogers wrote to me thanking us all for our participartion in the consultative process regarding management
arrangements for the Hardy Inlet Estuarine Fishery.

The Fisheries Minister Kim Chance, considered all the opinions
presented in the first round of consultation. Consequently he requested Fisheries WA develop a paper outlininga more comprehensive range of options for management of the fishery as a basis for further consultation.

Peter Rogers anticipated the paper would be available for comment by May30. The minister was to give carefull consideration to the matters raised in submissions in determining his position.

Peter Rogers said he looked forward to our continued participation in the consultation process.

After that on May 12, I recieved a letter from Fisheries Dept asking
permission to utilise Charter Ops catch return Statistics in preparing the discussion paper - to which I assented.

Thats it....October and still nuthin!!!!

The Paper was to be ready by May 30...

In March and April while Fisheries Department were "assuring us" that papers were being drawn up for discussion, CALM called adverts in 6 newspapers asking for sumbmissions of interest to participate as for committee member for the Proposed "CAPES" marine Park.

Now during that process the Marine Reserves area has been "extended southward" around Cape Leeuwin to include the Hardy inlet at Augusta.

Just WHO is in charge of managing the fish and waters of this
state?...

It appears VERY much to me at least that the Govt has run off the rails in as far as deciding WHICH department should be dealing with the issues and Fisheries dept have fumbled the ball and and hand balled it thru the "too hard basket" to the CALM department to create a marine park out of it (thus largely ignoring the wishes of recreational anglers and charter boat operators who service those recreational anglers).

Are we not entitled to ask where that "discussion paper" supposedly created by Fisheries WA is?

I mean - we all took time off work, travelled hundreds of kilometers out of our way to participate and contribute, so in fact we have some vested interest (read ownership) of the process - and yet we have no "discussion paper".

What about the Environment Ministers appointed Marine park Draft Management plan committee, overseen (and some would say being indoctrinated by) CALM?.. Do they get to see this paper supposedly produced by Fisheires WA, containing ALL of the opinions and concerns of all the affected parties in the process?????????????????

Is that WHY.....Fisheries WA haven't as yet produced the promised
discussion paper after 5 months?
Is it a DELIBERATE act on behalf of the State Government, Fisheires WA and Environment Ministers to keep the affected stakeholder parties (Recreational Fishermen, Charter Operators, and professional Netters) OUT of the decision making process for management of the Hardy inlet?

I CALL PUBLICLY on the Premier of this State Geoff Gallup to please explain to recreational anglers of this state, the failings of His Fisheries Minister & Fisheries Department, Environment Minister And Department of CALM to satisfy the anglers of WA and key Industry Stakeholders in regards to provision of the promised discussion paper, as well as the underhanded way the Marine parks Committee have been appointed and the planning process is currently being run.

I call PUBLICLY on the Opposition to HOLD our Ministers and their
respective departments ACCOUNTABLE to the citizens for their failings on the floor of parliament.

In the event this doesn't occur - I will call on the Ombudsman to
investigate the failed performance of these departments within their legislated obligations to the community.

It's well past time some leadership was shown on this issue and I call on the Premier to please ensure that a fully open and transparent process be instiuted to solve the resource issues for the Hardy inlet as he guarantees the people of WA on his website home page .

The current debacle is nothing short of a joke.

Sincerely

Shann Low

Blackwood Fly Fishing Charters[/quote]

Get to it people, if you want rec fishing interests adequately and properly presented to the marine parks planning committee deliberating on zoning of the Hardy Inlet.

IF you DO NOTHING then don't start DohDohDohDohDohing about losing that access to the Hardy Inlet on here once it's a done deal.

Cheers!

[jimi]

Guys, the discussion paper that trouty mentioned about the Blackwood netter (and other blackwood management issues) is just out.

Check out http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/comm/broc/mp/mp169/fmp169.pdf

Some key points from this document include:

- They repeatedly make the point that the Pro fisher has a limited affect on the blackbream fishery compared to recreational fishing. His fishing effort compared to ours is equivalent to "0.1 additional black bream per recreational fishing trip", based on 16500 recreational fishing days per year in the hardy inlet. They say that removing him would make no difference to the rec fishing experience.

- Our oft quoted justification for removing the pro because "we spend more money than him in town" was not seen as being holistic enough for fisheries. They say that the availability of fresh fish for the community is just as important.

- They make the point that removing the pro to make the fishery recreational only would have it's own problems as the high recreational take would reduce stocks anyway. Particularly if we want it to be big fish fishery. They don't seem to acknowledge that recreational pressure will increase whether the pro stays or not. Seems that they think it doesn't need to be managed as tightly if the pro stays.

- Apparently, stocking of bream in the river is done to "evalulate the feasibility of esturine stocking programs", rather than replace fish that are caught. However, it was scary to read that stocked fish are currently making up the "dominant proportion of the year classes that were introduced", meaning that not many wild fish are breeding and surviving. That could be seasonal though.

- They are concerned that they have no way to measure the fishery if the pro is removed as recreational catch data is not collected. Wish they would give us a bloody catch card then :D

Overall it sounds like they do want to do something, but it must have benefit for the whole community. That makes sense, and is the only way to go. Of course that means that the answer may not 100% suit our very specific needs/wants.

They are proposing more funding to do research into things such as water quality issues and recreational fishing catch.

The public can make comments until the 3rd of May.

Cheers
James.

1 year and 2 months later we finally get a discussion pappe r- meanwhile, some group of people who werent involved in the discussions at all, but who are hand selected by the minister to be on the Marine Parks Committee for the Leeuwin Naturalist are busy making zoning decisions on who will or wont be able to fish where or not at all, in the Blackwood R & Hardy inlet on all of our behalfs!!!!

Sooo

What do we think of the discussion paper?

Does anyone REALLY believe the Bullsyte that there are 15000 plus recreational angler days of fishing in the Blackwood even as far back as 1975 and that each angler keeps 3.8 bream????

What an ABSOLUTE crock of crap, if you'll pardon my turn of phrase. :mad:

Does Ira have any catch for effort ratios from the recent walpole bream rournament that can shed any light on what the real figures might be?

Lets put it this way.....

To get a FAIR recreational catch for effort ratio, we COULD do a little maths of our own (Ira might hafta take off his shoes n socks to count this high but!):D :p ;) (Kidding Kidding - down tiger - down I say!).

So...

Lets say Ira took the number of competitors who've entered bream comps since they started in WA in all the various rivers they have been held in.

For a state average, lets say he totals the NUMBER of bream caught and weighed in (to be released) divided bye the total number of anglers who have competed multipied bye the nimber of days they fished.

Wouldn;'t that give us a REALISTIC state average catch for effort ratio for bream as against the total farce that the cited research crel survey "guesstimate" from 1975 is beinng shoved down our throats?

Lets all submit our comments with the REAL likely catch effort...based on facts not some 30 year old guesswork.

The concensus if Fisheries WA researcher who prepared thereport is that DUE to the percieved high recreational catch - ending pro netting won't make any discernable difference to recreational catch - whereas WE KNOW that this is twaddle.

The recreational catch is MINISCULE, compared to the commercial effort would be more than likely the case.

By Fisheries OWN statistics - even anglers with the assistance ofprofessional guides - the latest in boats and tackle catch ONLY 229 fish during 183 angler days from Dec 2001 to Nov 2002

Don't know about you guys -but it don't take a rocket scientist to work out thats ONLY a catch for effort ratio of 1.25 Fish per angler days!!!!.

So MUCH for the 1975 Creel Survey.....a total Alice in Wonderland fabrication - not worth the paper it was written on....

So much for the estimated 3.8 fish per day we rec fishers are being saddled with as a statistic by Fisheries WA and WAFIC in order to make the pro catch look smaller statistically against the rec catch than it really is.

IF the catch were 1.25 fish per angler day rather than the 3.8 we are being told and which we all know is a fabrication - THEN the potential increases by gettting riod of both recreational and commercial netting ARE significant...

I think the 1975 creel survey was based on a LARGE recreational netting effort wiothin the environs of Molloy island by retired pensioners back in those days.

It is artificially skewing the results in favour of commercial netting...which is a travesty.

I suspect if Ira bothers to do the math I suggested (some one give him a hand....and a spare foot as well please!) :D ;) that we will find the REAL average angler catch to be LESS THAN one fish per angler per day....I am almost 100% sure of it.

Sure individual gun anglers can get a bagfull - but the AVERAGE joe struggles to catch bream consistently.

If we take into account the numbers that are released by rec anglers - then the AVERAGE angler bream RETENTION per day would IMHO be significantly LOWER than 1 fish per angler poer day.

When THESE more accurate and recent figures are utilised to compare recreational effort to the commercial catch, it will become abundantly CLEAR to an fair minded person that COMMERCIAL netting accounts for as MUCH or MORE bream retention than recreational angling does and that the REMOVAL of the last remaining pro netter COULD quite likely DOUBLE the catch rate - and average size of bream caught by recreational anglers, NOT to mention increase the actual disposable income spent in those rural towns by visitrs comming to sample the improved quality recreational angling experience.

Managing for a trophy fishery has its merits too.

Isn't ALL this a MOOT point if some gang on Marine Parks comiittee folks are about to toally remove all angling in the Blackwood Hardy inlet anyway?????

Shouldnt there be a MORATORIUM on MARINE PARK zoning decisions for the Hardy Inlet Blackwood River until such time as the resource allocation issues are finalised by the Fisheries Minister?

Shouldn;'t ALL the research suggested within the report be finalised BEFORE any hasty zoning decisions that WILL effect recreational and professional fishing in the Hardy Blackwood are made bye the CALM committee for Marine Parks?

Shouldn't ALL anglers be lobbying the Premier for a Moratorium on Marine Parks zoning of the Hardy Inet unrtil the resource allocation issues and associated research are completed?

DEMAND a Marine Parks Zoning Decisions Moratorium!!!!

Demand it NOW

If you don't, you'll have LOST the right to fish the Blackwood forever is my best guess.

THAT would be a travesty - when it was ANGLERS who set out to save it and it's fishstocks.

EMAIL the Premier - Email the press - email the opposition, hell email anyone who will listen but do it NOW people before it's TOO late!!!!

DEMAND a No Confidence Motion in Judy Edwards as Environment Minsister IF she doesnt put an IMMEDIATE STOP to the Marine Parks Committee's zoning deliberations until AFTER fisheries resource allocation issues are finalised.

DEMAND a No Confidence Motion in Kim Chance as Fisheries Minister IF he doesn't get his cabinet colleague the Environment Minister Judy Edwards to IMMEDIATELY put a STOP to Marine Parks Zoning deliberations by the Leeuwin Naturaliste Marine Parks Committee she has PREMATURELY INSTIGATED.

Cheers!

written even ONE email?

Just like I figured, - anglers basically couldn't give a round rats touche!:rolleyes:

Did anyone compute a catch for effort ratio figure for WA bream comps - to challenge the 3.8 fish per day twaddle the Fisheries and WAFIC are crediting anglers with since the 1975 creel survey which includied recreational bream netters??????

Like I said - no one gives a rats touche.

I bet plenty DohDohDohDohDoh n moan when the no fishing signs go up tho.

I bet we get algae blooms in the Swan river again next week or two - soon as we get some rain outta one of these cyclones up north after all this hot weather and if theres no flushing rains straight after it's bound to happen.

Maybe one day anglers will wake up to whats happening and actually band together and do something but I wouldn't advise holding ones breath waiting!!.

Cheers!

Just home from the Busselton public feedback meeting with CALM over the capes marine park no fishing zones.

As usual the same ol faces were there doing their bit for rec anglers (Rusty Ellis who owns the tackle shop in Busso etc), and as usual - CALM wasn't bloody listening despite all their assurances that they were they definitely had their own agenda.

After all the propaganda sessions by CALnm poking their message down our throats was over and we got down to discussing the nitty gritty of the zones themselves was when the hidden agenda surfaced.

We were allocated time in groups to make our points about the zones - 20 mins for the geo bay zones discussion, 20 mins for the capes Zones discussions and only 10 minutes for discussions about Hardy Inlet despite the fact I'd driven 100 miles round trip specifically to have my input to the meeting on that particular area.

We were asked if anyone objected to the 10 mins only for Hardy inlet and I stated that I'd driven 100 miles to make commentspeicically on those zones and wasn't happy about the unfair time allocation to discussion on the Hardy inlet - i was overridden publicly by CALMS good Dr Jessica Meeuwig in front of everyone.

Don't tell me CALM don't have their own agenda and DON'T manipulate meetings & public comments to suit their own ends - they do and this was a deliberate effort by CALM to do so I was in fact told to drive to Augusta in 2 nights time to attend the next public meeting iof i wanted to discuss those zones!!!

Like, hello - i'm here now and ready to go...lets discuss it NOW!!!

It takes time and money to travell all over the country side to make input / comments, valuable time for which CALM are getting paid - the rest of us are NOT.

Meeuwig WILL pay, mark my words - very unprofessional indeed and NOT the last we will hear of this.

Terry Fullers comments about the Chairman at the last meeting having undue influence over the zoning discussions and shuting people down and how the AAA have lost confidence in the public consultation process due to the manner in whioch the chairman handled the meeting as expressed on Western Anglers website were raised by me with the MRPA member rersponsible for overseeing the meeting tonight.

He was NOT a happy camper...to say the least.

Ian Stagles editorial on DohDohDohDohDohDohDoh website slating the marine parks planning process likewise also raised the ire of the boffins there - i think they JUST might be beginning to get the message what proportion of the population who fish, they have alienated.

Anyone who doesnt, make a point of making a public submission is a fool - because after it's all over is too late, and there IS a deliberate agenda CALM have to garnishee the revenue streams from all this vast expanse of ocean.

When the no fishing signs go up is too bloody late.

Cheers!

[madfish]

I'm replying in relation to the 1975 Creel Study, I was employed by Fisheries to undertake a 12 month 2003 Creel Study for the Wilson and Torbay Inlets. I could not beleive how many people went fishing for nil, narda, absolutely nothing, it was a very high percentage. I could name the anglers who consistantly caught and usually they were the good ones who returned under size fish and knew the rules. I think the comp "catch v effort" statistics would be very flattering to the average Joe Blow fisherman, the average angler doesn't visit these sites, hardly knows any of the rules, cant back a trailer and leaves most of his rubbish behind. This is my observation from siting in boat ramp carparks and other high use fishing locations for 12 months.
You'd think CALM would wait till the 2003 South Coast recreational Creel Study wouldn't ya, it's just like the Wilson report(which CALM are using to plan these Marine Parks) studied and written before 1984. $hit the world's changed a bit since then, I was driving pissed taking acid and shagging in the back of my HK stationwagon back then. I dont do any of that $hit now and CALM are trying to say that we still act like our 1980s rape & pilagers that we all were. It's 2004 I think we've all grown up and now relise that the earth is in trouble and are acting a bit more responsibly.

the REAL catch for effort ratio would be for breamers Madfish?

I reckon it'd be lucky if it was 1 per trip......perhaps less.

The thing is the 1975 creel survey included the old guys who recreationally net the blackwood - one might expect that their CFE ratio is probably MUCH higher and is whats inflated the 1975 creel survey figures so highly.

Again Ira's comp stats could also produce a representative and verifiable CFE ratio across broad area's of the states rivers, and acroos a representatice cross section of line fishers if he could provide them for us?.

As it is - the Hardy inlet netting issue will probably be LOST due to the unusually high CFE ratio being quoted by WAFIC - unless we have our own verifiable cfe ratio to quote back in this process, it will be a very hard battle to win.

Cheers!

[madfish]

Originally posted by trouty
the REAL catch for effort ratio would be for breamers Madfish?

I reckon it'd be lucky if it was 1 per trip......perhaps less.
Cheers!

I reckon the 2004 survey will show a far less catch for effort ratio, this also could be attributed to people going for a fish and not really caring if they don't catch, seldom done in the bad old days. One of the other big things I did notice was how many people didn't know the rules, and that was before fisheries made them hard to follow.

about Fisheries rules...and them bein hard to follow Madfish...

I can say now with some authority that even Fisheries themselves now don't know or understand the rules.

I guess we will all hear more about this is due course.

Suffice to say - that there are NEW regulations in force that as yet haven't been publicised and that Fisheries havent even had gazetted yet... Terry Fullers post on Wanglers Fisheries / environmental management forum details them...

They include the fact that if you stay on an offshore island for more than 48 hours, the new fillet length rules no longer apply to you. Filleting at sea ban is gone and so on and so forth - the new rules are so far removed from the old rules, that Fisheries themselves don't know what they are doing.

What else is new...

I think with the latest bag limit reductions, marine parks, netting issues, that frankly anglers have given up on rules, it's just too confusing - it's every man for themselves.

Even the new rules brochures Fisheries dept issued are wrong - they claim you must have your full address on every label - yet that isn't in the regulations at all, they just made it up when printig their brochures - and yet inspectors are telling folks they are in breach if the don;t have their address on every label - so the inspectors are enforcing the brocure which is wrong and NPT the regulations - which are the law...

Obviously - it's ALL too hard.

I could give other examples - but for now will wait...while Fisheries get a chance to correct their mistake.

Cheers!

besides me, made a submission to Fisheries dept about discussion paper no 169 on the resource sharing issue with netting the Hardy inlet Blackwood river for black bream????

Did we let this chance pass bye despite all the articles, and rhetoric at this site?

I know I sent a submission - but was I the only one?

How bout a show of hands for who sent in a submission to get an idea of the weight of numbers?

Anyone? :rolleyes:

Cheers!