Which Outboard?

[Captain]

Hey guys I'm looking at getting a new Outboard early next year, so I can Fish the ABT events in my boat.
I have a Stessco 3.75 Squire with a 15hp 4 stroke electric start Honda which is a great motor, but I need a bigger motor to fish the ABT's.
I think I will get a 25 hp 2stroke electric start, as my hull is rated to 25 and it can't handle the wait of the 25hp Four stroke.

Now is there a particular brand that will offer me maximum power with minimum weight, I know they are pretty much all similar but every little bit helps.
Any thoughts?.

Cheers
Captain

[Captain]

No one has any thought?
Well anyways I've done a bit more research and I'm leaning towards, a Yamaha 2 stroke 25hp. These seem to be the lightest but have the same Rpms as the others.

48kg for the manual start and 51 for electric start.

The Mecury's are 52kg manual start and that's not with the prop.

Cheers
Captain

25 horses might be a bit much for a 12 ft dingy myself.

2 stroke is smelly and noisey.

Is there any way you can ring a few more horses out of the honda 4 stroke 15 horse?

Havent had a look at the specs for it but sometimes some models are a detuned version of their equal weight big brother...

Some manufacturers use various methods to detune the smaller brother, like a throttle stop to avoid ever reaching WOT, others have smaller jets in the carby some have a air restrictor plate behind the carb.

Can you look up the specs for say the Honda 4 stroke 15 & 20 HP models and see if they have the same bore and stroke?

If they do - then maybe you can get an extra 5 horses out of the OB you already have...

Why do you want the extra horses?

Is it to carry the weight of a 2nd angler PLUS the required volume of livewell water for the comps?

If so, would just dropping the pitch on the existing prop you already have achieve the desired effect? (get her on the plane?)
What about adding a foil to the Vent plate (More planing surface area!)...

If the comps are going to rule out all boats under 14 feet and 20 horses anyway - would you be better off selling you 12 fter and 15 Horse OB and getting something say 16 ft with 50 ponys?

All food for thought eh?

Cheers!

[fatman]

Go a Yamaha.
Truth is that 2 strokes arn't that much louder (noise wise) than 4 strokes at WOT, and the Yammies run 100:1 so bugger all fumes. They are also cheaper to service, more reliable (less moving parts theory) and more grunt out of the hole. Two strokes will also only cost about half that of a four stroke, and four strokes are about twice the weight of a two stroke.
As far as I have been told from the top, there are no plans to change the boat size or HP ratings in the ABT.

FATMAN

I totally agree with Fatman:)

Samurai

[Captain]

Thanks guys for the responses.

I'am currently of two minds on the matter, I really like my current honda four stroke and it would be great if i could get some extra power out of it, I personally would prefer to stay with the four stroke as it is fairly new, electric start, quiet and runs on unleaded, no mixing to be done.

On the other hand you get three people in the boat and things get a bit of an effort for it, also the ABT says 20 horsies is minimum.

I don't plan on selling my boat ever as even if I do get a bigger, this one is ideal for canals and electric only dams, plus I only got it this year (my first boat).

Anyways I paln on waiting till next year to make any real decisions I plan to Fish a few ABT's to get a better Idea.

Though I will definately look into what you have Suggested Trouty, as I really like this motor, I hope I can find some more info about getting the extra Hp, I'm not the most mechanically mind.

Thanks again guys

Cheers
Captain

[Captain]

I had a quick look at the specs for the 15 and 20 and they look the some except for power. Who would be able to Identify what needs to be modded to get the extra power?

I guess a outboard mechanic at my local boat place would not do it, though I have a cousin who is an auto electrician and he is always working on his motor bikes, might give him a call.

I guess warranty is something to think about too, I'll check it out.

Cheers
Captain

If they are the same bore n stroke then your local dealer should be able to do the mods for you.

Depending on what he has to do will determin cost.

Some of the small engines (like the 5 & 10 Hp) sometimes just had a plastic throttle travel limiter on the 5hp model to limit the opening of the carb butterfly and hence limited the Wide open throttle rpms the 5 horse could achieve.

All you did to get the extra 5 horses was remove the plastic stopper.

Something easy like that would be cheap.

If however - you have to have the carby removed - the restrictor plate taken out - new gaskets and put her back together - as well as larger jets in the carby - then your likely talking a few hundred dollars to do.

It really depends on what they do to make the 20 into a 15 HP - they must govern or restrict the fuel in some way to reduce the overall output of HP...

You just need to find out what it is Honda do thats different between the two and get that mod done.

Another thing to think about is - that if you wring 20 horses out of it instead of 15 then it's going to wear out sooner. Now that only applies if you ALWAYS give it full herbs ALL the time. If you drive it sedately at 2/3rds throttle most of the time - then it's still only operating like a 15 and will last longer - BUT at least you always have those extra 5 ponies up ya sleeve, ready on tap, if you ever need em for the odd comp or where you have the extra angler aboard. ;)

As for the "sagely 2 stroke advice" above, you've just been given - you can safely ignore it - total twaddle, 4 strokes the ONLY way to go - these neanderthalls recommending 2 strokes are yesterdays men... :D ;)

Heres the reasons why.

1. Less moving parts?...yes but they move twice as often for the same distance over water ergo they wear out twice as quick.

2. Because they fire every stroke - (compared to every second stroke for the 4 stroker) they use twice as much fuel as a 4 stroker.

3. If you like being deaf at a premature age - then 2 strokes are great.:rolleyes:

4. Would any conscientious breamer who installs a livewell to ensure the well being of his precious bream so he can release them all alive - then turn around - walk to the end of the boat ramp or Barrack St Jetty and knowingly tip a 1 litre bottle of high Tide 2 stroke oil into the breams river water, and expect it to have no impact on future bream stocks and the overall health of the river?

Why is it any different then if you "hide" that exact same action bye pouring the oil thru your two stroke OB and spread it over a long disance along the river, so it's not so noticeable?

It's still in the bloody river - and we all know it shouldn't be.

The 2 cycle oil contrary to popular opinion doesn't all burn - it condensates out of the fuel upon combustion and lubricates the cylinders walls / pistone rings & goes thru the OB into the water along with the exhaust. :mad:

Thats a pretty environmentally responsible thing for breamers to do - no WONDER the govt wants to kick us all out of rivers and estuaries and create marine parks..if we ALL went down to the Swan River and tipped hundreds of litres of 2 cycle oil a day into it - the fish and the river woulkd soon be buggered. (oh - thats right, it already is!):rolleyes:

5. resale on your boat and OB.

When it comes time to sell your boat for a bigger, better, newer one - it will sell MUCH quicker and for MUCH more $ than a old stinky 2 stroke.

Cheers!

(Your turn Samuarai!):D ;) (just messin wif ya for a little light hearted fun! ;)

heres the answer for you Cap'n


4-stroke SOHC 2 Cylinders/4 Valves
Displacement: 350 cc (21.4 cubic inches)
Bore & Stroke: 59 mm x 64 mm (2.3 x 2.5 inches)
Full Throttle RPM Range:
(BF15) 4,500-5,500 RPM
(BF20) 5,000-6,000 RPM
Rated Power:
15 HP @ 5,000 RPM
20 HP @ 5,500 RPM
Cooling System: Water Cooled
Fuel Delivery: 1 Carburetor
Ignition System: PGM-IG
Starting System: Electric/Recoil
Exhaust: Through Hub

Theres the answer for you - the 15 Hp is rev limited is all - ge it to your dealker and grab the extra 5 horses with both hands - heck - you could probably even order a 20Hp sticker for the cowl and replace the 15hp decal so that when it comes to bream comps you'll still qualify! ;)

Best a luck, let us know what you find out - also mightn't hurt to check the hull compliance plate and see what the Max HP rating for the hull is just to be on the safe side.

Just a word of caution - 20 ponies on a light short hull with just one person aboard (you) can be a pretty twitchy rig to drive - seeing not much of the hull is in contact with the water at WOT so use a little discression and caution in how you use the extra horses OK?

Cheers!

[fatman]

Originally posted by trouty

As for the "sagely 2 stroke advice" above, you've just been given - you can safely ignore it - total twaddle, 4 strokes the ONLY way to go - these neanderthalls recommending 2 strokes are yesterdays men... :D ;)

Heres the reasons why.

1. Less moving parts?...yes but they move twice as often for the same distance over water ergo they wear out twice as quick.

2. Because they fire every stroke - (compared to every second stroke for the 4 stroker) they use twice as much fuel as a 4 stroker.

3. If you like being deaf at a premature age - then 2 strokes are great.:rolleyes:

4. Would any conscientious breamer who installs a livewell to ensure the well being of his precious bream so he can release them all alive - then turn around - walk to the end of the boat ramp or Barrack St Jetty and knowingly tip a 1 litre bottle of high Tide 2 stroke oil into the breams river water, and expect it to have no impact on future bream stocks and the overall health of the river?

Why is it any different then if you "hide" that exact same action bye pouring the oil thru your two stroke OB and spread it over a long disance along the river, so it's not so noticeable?

It's still in the bloody river - and we all know it shouldn't be.

The 2 cycle oil contrary to popular opinion doesn't all burn - it condensates out of the fuel upon combustion and lubricates the cylinders walls / pistone rings & goes thru the OB into the water along with the exhaust. :mad:

Thats a pretty environmentally responsible thing for breamers to do - no WONDER the govt wants to kick us all out of rivers and estuaries and create marine parks..if we ALL went down to the Swan River and tipped hundreds of litres of 2 cycle oil a day into it - the fish and the river woulkd soon be buggered. (oh - thats right, it already is!):rolleyes:

5. resale on your boat and OB.

When it comes time to sell your boat for a bigger, better, newer one - it will sell MUCH quicker and for MUCH more $ than a old stinky 2 stroke.

Cheers!

(Your turn Samuarai!):D ;) (just messin wif ya for a little light hearted fun! ;)

What a load of crap!!

1. Less moving parts?...yes but they move twice as often for the same distance over water ergo they wear out twice as quick.
Don't matter if it's a lawnmower or a spaceship, 5000 rpm is 5000 rpm. Two strokes don't spin twice as much, they FIRE twice as much, thats why he have more reponsive power

Because they fire every stroke - (compared to every second stroke for the 4 stroker) they use twice as much fuel as a 4 stroker.
more bullDohDohDohDoh
The consumption rates between two and four stroke will always favour the four stroke, but the reallity is for a 30hp two stroke is about 12 Lt/per hour compared to 30hp four stroke, 8.5Lt/per hour, much of a muchness really when you consider the extra weight the four stroke has to push around.

walk to the end of the boat ramp or Barrack St Jetty and knowingly tip a 1 litre bottle of high Tide 2 stroke oil into the breams river water, and expect it to have no impact on future bream stocks and the overall health of the river?
The 2 cycle oil contrary to popular opinion doesn't all burn - it condensates out of the fuel upon combustion and lubricates the cylinders walls / pistone rings & goes thru the OB into the water along with the exhaust.

Fair enough, not all the oil burns in two stroke fuel, but it's not like all us two stoke owners are driving around pouring oil throughout the river system. The percentage of unburnt oil amounts to about 0-5% in the modern two stroke, that equates to roughly 5 - 12 mls of oil per tank of fuel spread out over miles of area. Thats hardly tipping oil off the end of Barrack St Jetty is it??.
Many oils being developed now are biodegradable, so are much more enviromentally friendly

Thats a pretty environmentally responsible thing for breamers to do - no WONDER the govt wants to kick us all out of rivers and estuaries and create marine parks..if we ALL went down to the Swan River and tipped hundreds of litres of 2 cycle oil a day into it - the fish and the river woulkd soon be buggered. (oh - thats right, it already is!):
I can't name anywhere the gov is going to make 4 stroke only water. There are a few ELECTRIC only waters in QLD.

resale on your boat and OB.
When it comes time to sell your boat for a bigger, better, newer one - it will sell MUCH quicker and for MUCH more $ than a old stinky 2 stroke.
Of course when you pay more you will expect more back.

Face it, the two stroke boogieman is not as bad as made out, just a made up nasty of the dealers trying to flog off the dearer, more expensive motors (more commission). They will be around for many years to come

FATMAN

[Stevo]

Hello Capt'n

I have the exact same boat 3.75 squire, its a year old this month. Mine is rated to 20HP though:confused:

I put a 20HP Yamaha 2 stroke, it goes fine with 2 blokes , full livewell and all the weight in the boat. But as always we want more speed, I am happy with the speed i get from mine.

As fatman said, 2 strokes have come a long way, and the new 100:1 jobs have barely any fumes, except when you first start it up when its cold. I never see fumes out of mine when im trolling or when im at full throttle it is also 100:1

On such a small boat i think a 4 stroke is too heavy, but since you have one already you might as well find out if you can convert it to 20HP.

Good Luck

Oh and trouty, do you have any idea/ratio of how much unburnt fuel goes through your 4 stroke carby engines? Enless of course its a big motor with EFI?
Im just curious

Stevo:)

Trouty, you forgot to mention the costs involved in repairing a 4 stroke compared to a 2 stroke:D as for noise, fuel and power, from what Iv seen most of it is hype:D

Ill stick with my 2 stroke thank you:)

Samurai

[Captain]

Thanks again guys for the help.
It's great to get everyones thoughts, Trouty I'll be in to my local dealer Monday to see if he can make the mods.
It's great to have experienced guys willing to share and educate newcomers like myself.

I really would not have even thought of modding the motor.
I'll keep you informed on how things turn out.

Cheers
Captain :)

For you Cap'n

Is They Honda go on to list " Powerthrust " @
10x6.5 " 15hp
10x7 6/8 " 20hp

Powerthrust (as best i can tell) - is a different prop configuration designed for pushing barges / houseboats and the like at probably displaement speeds.

In your case tyheres possibly 2 more things you can do to make her plane easier (after the extra 5 horsepower mods).

Maybe try these other props out - they seem to have more blade are (for less slip on the water) and less pitch meaning the engine can spin em up to WOT revs easiwer for a LOWER top end speed.

If yours is having trouble getting on plane it MAY be because of prop slip factor....and these "powerthrust" props MIGHt just tip the balance in your favor - you might lose a few knots top end speed compared to when it's lightship and planing with just you aboard, BUT it mifgt have enough grab on the water to climb it;'s own planing wedge and at least get on the plane with a couple guys and water aboard.

2nd thing you can try if that's not enough is a doel fin type accessory for your cavitation plate on the OB.

This should effectively give you a lot pore planing surface and also help you climb the planing wedge with a heavey load but again it maty rob you of a few MPH top end speed thru increased drag.

Thats about all i can think of, off the top of my head! ;)

As fer Fatman and Samurai - I confess to deliberately chumming the water looking for some more responses - thats how the younguns here learn best - if they get to read lots of different opinins! ;) :D

Looks like it worked, eh! :D

Cheers!

:D :)

Samurai

[dantheman]

Im yet to see a good answer, to say 2 strokes are better,
ive had both, and the 4 stroke i have is awsome(60 hp yammie)
if you like a 2 stroke so be it, but the facts are pretty simple

cheers dan

[Brett W]

B4 u do anything have u thought about the reponse from the ABT when u tell e'm' your 15 really = 20????? Not sure u will like the answer. Maybe check 1st.

[chris_lemess]

I have a Quintrex 3.75m Dart. The hull weight is 75kg; onboard this w/e at the Mandurah comp I had ply floors and decks, full 90L livewell, 109amp/hr deep cycle battery, 55lb thrust Kota, 25L of fuel, two people and a sh!tload of tackle. The boat was loaded to say the least. On the back I've got a Honda 20hp four-stroke that I've had for a while - I upgraded from the 15hp at the beginning of the year. I used the grand total of 7L of fuel going all the way down the channel, across the inlet at full bore, and up the river. I've never had a problem with either engine - the only 2 strokes I've spent time in have been a pain in the arse, unreliable, bloody noisy (Yamaha) and chew through fuel like you wouldn't believe. And yes, this was a 20 that I'm comparing to my 20.

Yes there are arguments for and against. If you have the money, don't go backwards in time - get a 4 stroke. I love mine, and after it pushed my boat so well this w/e, I'd never use anything else.

cheers

PS: the ABT rule states that your outboard must make your boat plane 2-up with full livewells. 15hp is CONSIDERED the minimum to do this. If your boat does this then you don't have to upgrade unless you simply want the extra grunt (which I did!). At least this is the rule in WA.

Hey, Iv met a few women that were smelly,noisy, unrealiable, go through money are are a pain in the arse, but not all women are like that:D

Samurai

[chris_lemess]

Hahah good one! :D

I admit to being confused:-

From your post above:
On the back I've got a Honda 20hp two-stroke that I've had for a while - I upgraded from the 15hp at the beginning of the year
If you have the money, don't go backwards in time - get a 4 stroke. I love mine

So which do you have a 2 strokle as claimed or a 4 stroke as claimed?...

Your too young to suffer from phat Phinger syndrome like me! ;)

Samuari, I've known a few gals like that myself - but NOT that I'd own up to publicly! ;) :D

Cheers!

[Geoff R]

I have known heaps of women like that and i DO own up to it, among my mates I am a God.:p

[madsurfe]

Hi Trouty

just a little typo by Chris . He has a 20HP Honda four stroke.
:p

[chris_lemess]

haha I'm so retarded.
I meant 4 stroke... "whoopsie!"

Yeah paulic is right...it sad but true...
Hows that black snake doin mate? hehehehe!!!:D

[dantheman]

If you had the choice out of a 2 stroke or a 4 stoke which one would you take, say some one was buying it for you ,so money wasnt a issue, i believe most would go for the 4 stroke, what would you go for,
??
cheers Dan:D