5 Years from NOW

[Bear]

We all know they read the site, so why not give them something to read.

Where would you like to see tournament fishing in your state and in Oz in 5 years time.

Junior Series?

A final in WA?

More emphasis on the electric series?

[mozznf]

timed event woud be good
still 7 hour slots, just 3 1/2 in morn on daylight
and 3 1/2 in arvo on dusk

more bream
bigger bream

[bonscottfan]

would like to see the gun anglers from the east come over to WA and take on our guys over here,as we travel over there for events would be nice for them to come here and tackle the blackwood or walpole,getting the likes of dizzy,scott towner the morgans etc

[brad mcdonald]

where would i like it to be ..... i'd like it to be in a place where the top 10 anglers could be fulltime and make a living on the tour.

where will it be .... about the same as it is now i'd reckon.

best we could hope for would be about 4 rounds a year and MYABE a final held here one day ....

JMO

[matthewsiow]

Hoping that more Comp will be in SA and Organiser will spend more time and effort to involve non boater...like me..

[warren63]

For kayakers like myself more photo and release instead of weigh and release events. Definitely easier to carry a camera onboard then a live well.:p

Should increase entry numbers, note that a photo and release event has 50 entries and wont accept anymore whilst a weigh and release event on the same weekend has only 20 entrants.

[warren63]

P.s. Making changes now would be nice !

[bubba]

Not sure what the organisers can do but I would like to see a larger influx of competitors. Especially in the west. We usually only get a couple of new ones a year and lose a couple.
Would also like to see the Classic series go back to paying cash for at least part of the prize. The sponsors have been fantastic and I hope they will continue to be but that little bit of green always helps with the ofset if you are luck to get into the prizes

[Dan Walter]

East coast anglers won't come to WA anytime soon as it will cost a fortune and time off to go there and back, I agree it would be good, unless the locals want to give up their boats to a top pro for a few days, also the same reason you probably won't see a GF i'n WA.
Also why have split times? If you can't catch bream anytime of the day.......
This would also be Pain for those that travel and have to go home and be at work on Monday.



If tournament fishing is going to go to the next level they may like to consider advertising the events more and making it more of a carnival event. Eg. The hawkesbury SS this year was a drive through weigh in, besides a few holiday makers the spectators where competitors, if there is more of an audience sponsors will throw more $$$$ competitors get a batter pay out.

[Bear]

'Not sure what the organisers can do but I would like to see a larger influx of competitors.'

Every other sport has a junior division so that there is a path from a young age to progress through the sport. I don't see this sport growing unless this happens.

JMO.

[Dan Walter]

'Not sure what the organisers can do but I would like to see a larger influx of competitors.'

Every other sport has a junior division so that there is a path from a young age to progress through the sport. I don't see this sport growing unless this happens.

JMO.

What do you mean by a junior division bear? How would it work?You need to be 16+ to enter an ABT or classic. That's why there are non boaters, I'm even going as a non boater next year to learn more. I think it may be an insurance issue? Not sure, I do agree the younger ones need to be nurtured.

[nuzzy]

East coast anglers won't come to WA anytime soon as it will cost a fortune and time off to go there and back, I agree it would be good, unless the locals want to give up their boats to a top pro for a few days, also the same reason you probably won't see a GF i'n WA.


so your saying its ok for WA anglers to spend a fortune and take time off to head over east for the GF etc but not if it was the other way around.

i know alot of the WA guys are spending the money and time to get over to vic for the GF because they love the sport, not because they have to. if people here can do it then why cant people from the east coast do it.

[Dan Walter]

Nuzz
Mate, are all WA crew dragging their boats across? Or fly in fly out?
Offer Dizzy or Morgan your boat maybe they will come across.
I'm only saying what others have said.

I know you boys make the effort year on year out, as far as I know Don has been the only one to drive over.

Same can be said for tassie anglers I don't know many that have taken their boats across.

[bubba]

The big issue is the sheer number of boats needed.
50 odd boats for the GF. there is only about 35 regular competitors. Will all of them provide boats? Unlikely. its a bloody long drive towing a boat from over east so realistically its never going to happen until we can provide 50 boats and the 6-10 competitors from WA.

Alot of the big names would love to fish WA but it just cant happen until the sport grows significantly in WA

[brad mcdonald]

a feeder serries would be great

but i guess ABT is kind of a feeder to the AFC .... sort of.

why is it not as big on the west coast as the east?

the distances are the same east or west so that no real reason or excuse.

one issue is the number of people who are active fishing comps ( as others have said) & total population is way down by comparision so it a smaller market to start with, hence smaller numbers in the comps, less exposure for sponsors etc.

another issue is the number of suitable venues over here on the west coast.

5 west cost venues vs (i'm guessing) 50 east coast ones ... makes it hard for organisers.

but all that aside it comes down to one thing....

MONEY, theres not enough to go around in the comp scene on the west coast, both for organsers and competitors. if you can figure out how to fix that then not only will you make a few bucks but i reckon the sport would sky rocket...

JMO

[Dan Walter]

Your right Brad ABT is a feeder to the AFC, be good if the afc would be expanded so the top 30 would have a bunch of their own comps vieing for bigger bucks and have it televised, it would give the rest of us a bit more of a chance lol. But as said it comes down to the bucks.
It comes down to making the abt bigger and I guess thing may flow on. Or a consortume with a lot of money comes on bored and starts up another tour, unlikely.
Even brining in other sponsors, not just fishing related companies examples being, say, jack daniels, VB, KFC large companies that could gain something from the exposure and inject some cash, Iv only herd some round about figures on whT it costs Daiwa to be a naming right for the abt and what it costs to be a team sponsor on afc is big bucks. I think AFC has suffered since the GFC. Personaly I'm not a fan of the currant format.
Having said that morgan and the crew do a good job with what they have, it would be good to see it go to another level and create more exposure this may bring more out side sponsors, but, it costs to do that.

[Dell]

For kayakers like myself more photo and release instead of weigh and release events. Definitely easier to carry a camera onboard then a live well.

IMO I believe that photo and release comps wont do the bream series any justice. Alot of people go to the weigh in to see fish. no fish = less audience which = less exposure to public

so your saying its ok for WA anglers to spend a fortune and take time off to head over east for the GF etc but not if it was the other way around.

i know alot of the WA guys are spending the money and time to get over to vic for the GF because they love the sport, not because they have to. if people here can do it then why cant people from the east coast do it.

I believe it comes down to sheer numbers of east coast to west coast competitors. Doesn't seem very clever to send say 90% of the GF competitors across the continent as most qualifiers are based in the eastern states.

What I would like to see is. If abt can scrape up more sponsors and get some more funding into the comps. maybe film the super series comps to try get more exposure to the general public.

[rrumbles]

To get more juniors and more seniors in the sport there needs to be a division or series of say 6hp to 25hp comps(like the bass electrics) and those people will then make the the next step of buying bigger boats if they enjoy the comps.

[LING]

I am with BEAR i would also like to see a junior event start up . max age to be 16 and pair them up with some of the big boys 9am start and 2 to 3pm finish We need to get the juniors up and coming or we loose them .Yes i know the more competitors the less chance of winning a comp ,but think of the challenge coming first against a 100 boat field

[Dell]

Doesn't seem likely at this stage but i'd like to see the super series pay out go back to $10K for 1st place regardless of the option up system.

[Dan Walter]

So do the big boys Ling, fish out of generosity or do they get cash? Couple this with other abt events, work and family commitments. A6hp to 25hp sounds good, but, with both ideas the question that enters my head is, will this impact on current ABT non boater numbers? Great ideas bit of a fin line isn't it?

[Dodgy back]

I am against junior event . 16 year olds can enter as a non boater, now thats pretty good, Juniors can now fish with a parent in some of the many teams events.

If you have an event in QLD and allow juniors, the partners would need to have a "blue card" to be able to fish with kids.!!

In the next 5 years I would like to see the entry fee increase to allow for some better pay backs and to also bring back some of the "super" into the super series. The have seemed to have lost some glos of late with some low entry lists.

There are many teams events around at the moment ,I would like to see a couple of individual events.

[BlackBreamer]

you will probably find Marine Parks will have there way and the comp will be a thing that used to happen...................................

[rrumbles]

I think the abt need more help from sponsors,some of these fishing tackle companies are massive and they really don't throw enough cash back into Australian comps,its easy for them to give out hats and lures what about cash?

[Beasty breambo]

yea i junior series like under 21's or somthin like that.
at the moment i am 15 and lookin on entering a couple of abt events next year and a juniour series would be great. :D

[bonscottfan]

When I first started out getting your face around and meeting the guys is the best thing for you if you want to start fishing comps thats why I did the Abt events and was fortunate to pick up a partner who had a boat to fish the classics as I tried for a year to get a partner for the classics events,if you have your own boat then it's not hard but if you don't it makes it harder because guys don't know you and most won't take a gamble on you which is fair enough because at the end of the day it's a comp and we all want to do our best.point is if your starting out do the Abt events get to know the guys do the right thing and things will fall into place- on another note there is alot of guys who team up together who both have boats now if some of them split you could go from a 35 team field to a 45-50 team event and surely that would look better to a sponsors view jmo

[forsterfisho]

I can see the ABT in its current format slowing dissapearing into the sunset, over the next x amount of years. The rise of the BETS series as a sort of "elite" level comp and others team based comps such as the Gama comps and the southern series (not sure the proper name of that comp?).
I think some sort of cash injection into the pay outs for non boaters; even though nonboaters don't have the running costs associated with boats. It still adds up when accomodation, food, car fuel, time off work, gear, petrol money for boaters and entry fee's. I personally can't justify all of that, to drive 300 odd k's north or south for the chance to win some rods and reels. Not sure how to get around that hurdle for the tournament organises; perhaps the injection of $$$ from that money tree growing in the back yard? :confused:
A 40hp and under comp would be fantastic, I think they would gain a huge following, but I'm not sure on locations. The smaller waterways would suit the smaller boats and motors. Again prize money and entry fees come into the equation. $50 entry fee and $200 first place or something similiar is unlikely to attract entrants from hundres of km's away. $200 entry fee and $1000 first place, will also kill off people entering the comp.

If a large enough sponsor(s) came on board, perhaps you can have different levels of competition. perhaps something similar to the ABT leading into the AFC. but instead a entry level regional comp, leading onto a state championship, then a state vs state comp for a national champion? (this idea has been floated before)

[Brad Y]

5 years from now...

Breaming wont be any bigger than it is in WA. Sad but true. WA hasnt got much to offer ABT compared to the eastern states. ABT do a great job in giving us a couple of qualifiers, but realistically there cant be a GF in the west as it just isnt big enough, nor will it attract the attention on the multitudes of sponsors they have in the east. So get used to it WA wont have an ABT final.

We already have southern and swan/mandurah classics plus these two qualifiers. These dates really do blanket the best fishing seasons and much more fishing pressure and our systems will be worse than they are now- the old school guys will remember walpole dishing kilo fish by the livewell full and albany... how many 23.5cm bream are there now! For some reason even perth seems to be fishing more and more average.

I reckon diversity is where its at. Calamari classics, trout and redfin electric events, whiting, spanglies, flathead, salmon... we have all the sportfish under the sun. Combine it all into one big AOY series. Film and get it onto Aurora like Vic classics have. Thats the way you will get it to be more.

Trouble is, you need people with a decent wad of cash and time to spare to get it going. Plenty of people have tried to do little bits and pieces (myself included) but it ends up happening at personal cost and we all have our own lives to lead. If this could make money and turn as big as ABT have then we would jump at it. Is anyone personally willing to take the risk? If so I have this very idea for you but I havent got the funds and time to run it and I dont think the current organisers are willing to bite off too much as they have their own lives to run. We tried to make it run from a club but clubs cant offer prizes etc so the attraction wasnt there.

Junior development. I can see the merit in it, but man the AFL cant even get junior development right. Also there are minimum ages etc with skippers tickets and then there is insurance costs etc. Take a junior fishing is another story, Im all for that. While we are at it get more wives and partners into it too if we are going to do the juniors. They come along for the weekends away so why not get out and fish. Half the time they go better than us blokes anyway. The girls who fished the partners event at walpole had a great time (aside from the weather) but yeah it was fun.

I would love to see the return of WABT as they were the most enjoying tournaments that I have ever fished. Running these two day events as qualifiers to the ABT grand final is an idea but again you need someone to run it from over here with ABT's permission. If I could earn $75K a year doing it so I could afford my home and live comfortably then sign me up.

Yours sincerely

Dr Predict Dabriminfiveyears

[***dingo***]

'Not sure what the organisers can do but I would like to see a larger influx of competitors.'

Every other sport has a junior division so that there is a path from a young age to progress through the sport. I don't see this sport growing unless this happens.

JMO.

Spot on. GIVE THE KIDS A COMP!!

[Nick Cuccovia]

Money paid out to 10th!!! Huge prizes come on bring back WABT!!!!!:D

[Shortytheyakker]

In 5 years i would like to see 50 entrants into the local Kayak ABT and i can see this being achievable, i would also like to see a full program thru the year and a local state final and a National Grand Final here, as the kayaks supplied travel by sea Containers it would not be to much extra hassle to have the Grand Final set up in W.A and we have many willing hands here to set it up and assist interstate entrants,,:)

Oh and i would like to see different venues for the kayaks,,as we don't need boat ramps it must open up more possibilitys tho i am to new to the game to know where that might be,,

[Bear]

So do the big boys Ling, fish out of generosity or do they get cash? Couple this with other abt events, work and family commitments. A6hp to 25hp sounds good, but, with both ideas the question that enters my head is, will this impact on current ABT non boater numbers? Great ideas bit of a fin line isn't it?


Can be done a number of ways, similar to what we were starting to do at WABT.

Jr. yakkers.

Jr. electric series.

Jr. as nb during the series. With events looking as though nb numbers have been short, why not. They get the chance to fish for good anglers and have a chance to see how it's done before they get boats themselves.

[Steve Morgan]

Guys,

Every few years I have to tell this story – but I’m fine with that – there’s no secrets to ABT’s existence and why we do the things that we do.

ABT exists to help develop the fishing and boating industry. A bit over a decade ago, we had no need or desire to buy fast boats, expensive tackle or a dozen bream-luring outfits. And now we do.

We think that the best way to do this is using the boater/non-boater draw system. It’s virtually cheat-proof and, more importantly, it creates a pathway for people coming into the sport to get guaranteed rides on boats and first hand experience with other anglers that like to catch fish on lures.
Sure, it’s administratively difficult – that’s why everyone else takes the easy way out and runs teams-style events.

I’ll guarantee you that without the draw system, anglers would be very secretive about their tactics and tackle. How does that create an environment for industry growth? Steve Bain’s concept of “Who Shares Wins” was well thought out and rings true at many levels.

The industry backs the concept.

Each year ABT raises a couple of hundred grand in sponsorship dollars to fund the full time employment of three staff and put them on the road to run major ABT events. It also maintains the framework for the BREAM Classic system that most of the teams events in the country work with and contribute towards. And, as you probably know, ABT also runs bass, barra and flathead events throughout the year.

There’s no committees and few volunteers. Like any business, ABT listens to customer feedback, but it’s used to streamline the processes rather than change the foundations of its success.

Plenty of other events have come and gone – I’m sure someone could trawl the archive here and find a bit about WABT shutting down due to lack of interest and/or cash. I remember concerned customers telling us that we’d be out of business in a year because of the STC(?) comps when they started up.

Probably the most important reason, though, that ABT endures, is because every cent that it makes is spent on the events that it runs (and to a lesser extent, its publications – online and in print). I guess that I’ve spent thousands and thousands of hours working on it and have never taken a wage – it gets put back into the system, just like any prizemoney that I win.

So, when ABT makes decisions, we make it with the ‘will it help the industry and the future of the sport’ paradigm firmly in mind. The outcomes may differ from your wish list, which may have good intentions, but lack practicality.

Some suggestions we’ve had in the past are brilliant, and we’ve taken them on. Thanks to all who take the time to contribute – whether we act on your ideas or not.

So, where do we go from here?

Everyone has their 2c to contribute, and we respect that, but I think that the best thing that you can do for your sport is to introduce a new person to it.

Think about it – if everyone here got a friend, relative, child or workmate hooked on breamin’, then the whole deal would double.

It’s not that hard – just one person each. Sounds a lot easier than expecting the organisation that creates the framework to also fill it up.

Thanks Sean F for starting the topic. I notice that a lot of BreamMaster’s sponsors have a genesis in the tournament scene, so it’s nice to see the wheel turning.

Cheers,

Steve Morgan

[Bear]

'Everyone has their 2c to contribute, and we respect that, but I think that the best thing that you can do for your sport is to introduce a new person to it.'

Not going to happen here with only 2 events per year and nothing for a WA angler to really gain. Part of the reason WABT existed in the first place. Would be great for one of the comps to have picked them up and run with them to fill the gap. Not to be I suppose.

I understand ABT's point of view, and I suppose that's what we all get when a single 'business', or in WA's case 'businesses', runs the 'sport'. In the end it's what helps the business, not always what may be best for the sport.

This is really where clubs can step in and feed off what ABT has begun. Not really that different to what happens in other sports.

Keep 'em coming though. Always good to share ideas :)

[Steve Morgan]

Wasn't talking about tournaments, Sean, just bream fishing in general for the 'bring ya' mate' bit.

Agreed re: clubs helping to fill in the gaps!

SM

[nuzzy]

if the ABT is wanting to get new anglers on board and into the comps, why not have some sort of incentive program to get them. possibly something like 50% off your entry fee for your first comp then full price for all the rest of the comps or 50% off ABT membership for the first year you join. maybe even a refer a friend system where if you bring a friend to a comp and they join then you both get 20% off.

another possibility is to introduce prizes for the whole field, not just the top 10. even if its only a lure from the sponsors so the people who did not do so well can still take something away from the event.

[Sav02]

it would be awsome to see more tv time, look at the bass comps in the states, they play it on national tv like we play all codes of footy here, why not something similar, like previously said maybe start with afc and super series, then go from there, a bunch of my never before been fishing mates have come to weighs ins and so on and just from seeing the ritzy boats and gear to the nervous weigh in they are all now devoted bream fisho's put it in front of peoples faces and get attention

[kaleido]

it would be awsome to see more tv time, look at the bass comps in the states, they play it on national tv like we play all codes of footy here, why not something similar, like previously said maybe start with afc and super series, then go from there, a bunch of my never before been fishing mates have come to weighs ins and so on and just from seeing the ritzy boats and gear to the nervous weigh in they are all now devoted bream fisho's put it in front of peoples faces and get attention

Might help if AFC wasnt cancelled lol

[bubba]

'Not going to happen here with only 2 events per year and nothing for a WA angler to really gain. Part of the reason WABT existed in the first place. Would be great for one of the comps to have picked them up and run with them to fill the gap. Not to be I suppose.



Bear, Technically there is only 2 or 3 events in each state. NSW and QLD have the super series but everywhere else (except SA) has 2 events.
There is also the Classic series to fill in the gaps between ABT Comps.

This gives WA 6 or 7 comps (including WA grand final)

WA Anglers still get the same invites to the national GF as what the rest of the country does. Ofcourse logistically we are at a disadvantage buty this has been no different for the last 8 years or so.

If WA wants a truely state based comp scene it needs to be done outside of the ABT Scene (like WABT) but run differently perhaps.

Hillbilly has really put forward the future, I think, for the WA comp scene. utilising things like the Calamari Classic (maybe some one needs to give those guys a hand to get them more often?)

Fishing clubs are a great idea but look at the ones that have sprung up. They need peoples support. Something the west is lacking!

Junior comps are an idea but the insurance costs would be astronomical!

Those politically minded people should perhaps approach the various WA publictions to setup various comps. Either that or the larger fishing/boating clubs around the state. I know Craig has a good deal going on with Mandurah Ofshore for the classics.

Regardless of all of the above, it all takes money and someone needs to get the money and more importantly the interest of the public and the public is a notoriously apathetic lot!

[Online store]

If you start discounting entry fees then there is less money going into the pot and the bottom line is everyone wants to see the pot get bigger.

The bigger the money the more people are willing to give it a go, and spend the money on accomodation travel, boats etc.

Clubs are great but they inevitably end up as a small group of people doing all of the work, for no reward, except for people standing back and telling them what they should do, not that what they are doing is great.

Steve and the ABT employees do a great job! I do not like all of the rules and certain facets of the runnings of the comps, but the bottom line is that they run the comps so they make the rules. I love fishing the comps and probably would in any format they said we had to fish.

"Who Shares Wins" is the best thing that has ever come out of tournaments which is why I enjoy the non team comps so much. Spending the day on the water with people I would normally never fish with has seen me learn many things I would probably never have taught myself in a lifetime.

If I had my time over in comps I would probably spend a couple of years as a non boater. This opportunity is worth not being in the cash side of the comp.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Bring a friend grow the sport grow the cash pool and everyone wins!

Ian Sewell

[nuzzy]

If you start discounting entry fees then there is less money going into the pot and the bottom line is everyone wants to see the pot get bigger.

The bigger the money the more people are willing to give it a go, and spend the money on accomodation travel, boats etc.


my suggestion was to discount the fees for a first time participant, this would actually amount to a higher prize pool for the comp because of the greater number of participants. once they have competed in their first comp and want to do another then they have to pay the full price.

the point being to get more people through the door, enable bigger fields, more competition and bigger prize money.

[Online store]

Bring a friend grow the sport grow the cash pool and everyone wins!

[Craig]

Interesting discussion and some good ideas but as a number of you have said it takes someone to stand up and actually get the ball rolling by doing the hard yards.

Some realities:
Very difficult to get sponsors;
Even more difficult to get cash rather than product from sponsors;
Administration / organisation of comps takes a heap of time - eg The WA Classics may be a one day event but it takes me the whole weekend getting organised and then running the event;
There is Government red tape to be worked through and if a junior event was to be run then the Working with Children checks would need to be done at $30 each from memory - so a bigger workload (and risk).

There is more but I don't want to come accross as negative.

Perhaps suggestions of sponsors - I am trying to attract major sponsors from outside fishing (so far only knock backs Skywest excepted)) but am open to further suggestions.

In general terms I see the progression as being: Club events, then Classics, the ABT events.

How are the Clubs progressing?
ABT events struggled for numbers in WA so running 2 day events may not be practical.
Brads suggestion of other species events has merit (Bubba suggested this also in a different thread - Centre Console inshore comp I think) - maybe these could be photo style?
Maybe a Boater/Non Boater Classic - a Teams event but you don't know who is going to be teamed with who?

The Mandurah Offshore Fishing Club would be pleased as punch if we could run other events using their facilities as a base - an Inshore event??

But it all takes time to organise - the 4 Classic qualifiers, The WA GF and the 2 WA ABT events (a total of 7 events) keep me more than occupied but I am happy to help out (advise etc) others as I do with the Kayak guys and the Squid comps.

Keep the ideas coming it is great to see you all thinking about it.

[brad mcdonald]

How are the Clubs progressing?


ian hit the nail on the head club wise ... most of the work done by a few, but thats the nature of the beast.

what a club requires to run well is no different to comps they both need keen dedicated people who generally have the good of the sport at heart but apart from that they need .... money ....

but you run with what you've got and you do what you can to make things work.

a big reason why we at the WCSA have gone away from trying to run comps, is others here in the west are are doing a bloody good job overall, namely craig and steve. pleanty will gripe about this and that, but over all they are bloody well done.

sure we might do somthing for fun at an out of the way location that ABT or Classics could never visit, but even then its realy just for laughs with only a few donated prizes.

stu & the albany off shore club are doing some great stuff on the south coast, i just hope other members chip in whenever they can.

over all my thinking lines up with ian, steve's and others - bring a mate along, the more addicts the better the sport will go.

just my 1.99 US cents worth.

[rrumbles]

In five years time how smart are bream going to be?what new lures will come out?will 2lb fluro still get bites in pressured waters?what sounders will we be using?

[stompy]

Hey,

There are a stack of comps on the east coast, you could fish one most weekends if you wants to travel a bit.

In 5 years, who knows. Maybe a shared weight system similar to the states? I think this would really make a impact to the scene and see boaters and non boaters fishing like a team and draw plenty of interest.

I try to fish 4 or 5 ABT events and maybe 6 teams events and really enjoy both.

Would love to hear opinions on shared weight as a concept for ABT events.

Cheers,

[Dodgy back]

the shared weight was already tried with ABT and by all reports wasn't well liked.

[phil jagger]

Personally, in five years, I think, the tournament scene will be more or less exactly where it is. We don't have the population to support the sport which, in-turn, means we will never have the sponsorship dollars to support the anglers.

Negative I know........but it's the way it is.

As a social and "hobby" style event it will always be successful, but as a professional option for anglers....no chance.

And as far as a bigger kayak series and a junior series...the same again, it will never be popular enough for sponsors to be interested.

Hope I'm wrong.

Phil