The fixation with 'stump pullers'

[Pukka]

Hi Breamers,

I don't know about you guys, but I've noticed a re-occuring theme when describing the 'ideal' breamrod.
It seems in an effort to gain 'bream rod nirvana', there has been an increasing interest in rods that are able to throw 1/32nds and yet still have enough power in the butt section to pull a small car.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this fascination with the 'stump puller' originated with the guys who were fishing for big bluenoses amongst the oyster racks in competition. After getting blown away numerous times, these guys, or at least some of them, demanded a rod that could throw the light stuff yet still 'rip' a fish off a rack, with a fully locked drag, in record time.
Now I'm all for rod's designed for a specific purpose but this hankering for 'low end grunt' seems to have worked it's way into every new bream rod designed, and I'm not sure half of us breamers need that grunt in the first place.
I think with the present day materials and rod building techniques it's impossible to make a bream rod that covers all the fishing styles and eventualities, and does them as well as a rod specifically designed for that purpose. That is why most of us who fish a lot, and in many diff' situations must have a 'quiver' of rods, (it's not just 'cause I like collecting them - honest! :D).
What do you guys think?

Pukka
(Proud member of the 1-2kg rod club ;):))

PS Just an added note to my post... our very own Dave W did extremelly well in the Forster ABT comp' fishing the flats - no need for a 'stump puller' there. Also, Tim Morgan who won the event, fish the racks but didn't use a 'rip and wind' technique either, preferring to 'chase' the fish down. No need for 'grunt' there either... maybe it's a guy thing, you tell me.

Pukka, interesting thoughts you have there, I would tend to agree with to a certain extent.

Cheers Samurai

[Ravin]

Your talking common sense I reckon Pukka. I have a few different outfits & yeh I have a stump puller its a 6'9 St Croix blank I had built up. Its used around the natural snags here where I get hit by Jacks a bit as well as bream.

To be honest the extra grunt in the butt hasn't made the slightest difference to the outcome on the Jacks :p Its been a win - win situation for them that is. Its a good outfit for targetting big flathead & the different types of Trevally around here as well where a bit of power comes in very handy.

A lot of my fishing is done on flats & around weed beds & around a few pontoons & the 2 rods I use for this a 6 footer for the pontoons & a 7 footer for the flats are not big in the power department but they do the job very well. My most recent outfit is a Strudwick 1-2 kilo ultra light spin rod with a Stradic 1000 & its a pleasure to use. Taken some nice Lizards on it to 2 kilos & a few good bream & it handles them with ease.

Good post Pukka I reckon this will be an interesting thread with a few different points of view.

I reckon you can count me in as a member of the 1 to 2 kg club (until Jack & GT season :cool: ):D

[Dave W]

I agree mate :)

You'll always need a rod for heavy work around nasty structure (if you choose to fish there :D ).

But for the majority of work, even around bridges :rolleyes: , jetties and pylons you can use a rod as sloppy as you like, makes a bow and arrow cast a lot easier too :)

One of my favorite rods is the 602LFS Procaster-X. Not exactly a brutal kind of stick, and the action lets you 'lob' a jighead in certain circumstances, rather than having to outright drive a cast if you were using a really fast rod....

If I was in the market for a new rod, I'd definitely look at a Heartland 'Midge Direction' - I just love this stick but I can't justify spending the dollars when I get my rods from another source ;)

I thinkyou've got that one :confused: Nice choice - and the butt looks sexy :D

Cheers,

[Pukka]

Thanks for the comments Warren, be interested to know your thoughts too.

Rav' I hope you manage to pull in one of those Jacks. I think I might be sensible and leave the 1kg tackle at home when I get the opportunity to chase those beasts ;):D

Dave you're right mate, I bought the 'midge' a few months back and at the moment it's the first rod I pick up when I'm off for a 'sesh' - I love it, but don't tell her indoors, eh! :D

Joe

[Ravin]

Pukka your right about leaving the fairy wand in the rod locker :D Trouble is Jacks love a nicely presented bream lure or plastic. :mad: Wish they were as keen when I target them with the elephant gun :p :rolleyes:

Hi Guys, most of the bream fishing I do is done with a 2/4 kilo stix,
but there are quite often times when targeting bream up north (yes we do fish for bream in the north, when the barra are a bit quite) you need that heavier stix because of the type of terrain the bream live in up north, as you can see by the attached pic, anything lighter than a 4/6 and you can kiss your lures bye bye.

I find the same applies with barra fishing, I would normally use a 4/7 kilo but always carry 5/8 and a 8/10 depending where I'm fishing or if I intend doing any deep water trolling (I hate trolling)

Cheers Samurai

Great pic there Warren!:D
I thought we got into tough terrain at times!

Dave

Thanks Dave, we do a lot of luring like that with softs, when that pic was taken the boat was pulled in under the mangrove canopy about thirty feet. you don't cast just strip the line lol.

Cheers Samurai

[fatman]

I prefer the "quiver of rods" rather than one all-rounder. I use a Pacific Composites AF 107 Ultraspin spooled with 4 lb Fireline/6lb leader for light work, and a heavier Serengetti 20006 with 6lb Fireline/10lb leader for around heavy structure and oyster racks.

FATMAN

[pw-bream]

I have caught so many Bream and Flathead on a custom rolled rod on a Butterworth FMT72L blank (a very light, soft blank) that I don't think you need a "stump puller" either. Even at Docklands the rod works amongst the structure there. In fact it is a bit like a short stroker, most of the length follows the line leaving a short section doing the levering.

A longer rod that stays out straight under load might give more ability to lead a fish round an outboard leg or similar, but I don't think it "pulls" a fish out toward you any quicker/better. In fact the principals of leverage would suggest that it is worse.

[Mick]

I tend to think that the light tip/low grunt trend in bream rods is a good thing. Due to the nature of the fish it self, there will always be a myriad of rod actions for different situations but when you get down to basics I feel that a good bream rod is one as you described, a stick that can cast a light weight but still able to drag a decent fish from structure, but of course this is only a personal opinion and Im sure others will disagree.

The bream spin revolution has also brought about a new revolution in rod building. It’s good to know that if you buy a custom bream rod you are getting a rod designed to catch bream, not big mouth bass, small mouth bass, striped bass, blue gill, crappies, walleye, trout etc etc.

A light slow action “whippy” style of rod is perfect fishing friendly country over sand flats, weed beds etc. But I feel its shortcomings would quickly become apparent fighting fish in racks, around wharves, boats and moorings, reefy areas and other rough country.

At the end of the day I think most bream fisho’s will have a few rods in their arsenal but if I had the choice to choose only one type of rod to fish all of the above mentioned areas, I would go with the light tip/low grunt action model rather than a light whippy wand.

Although I have a couple of lighter slower rods, most of my fishing is done with fast action models which have helped me catch a fish of two in the past.

[dan_WA]

....The only stump puller I want is for 'da back of da hilux' to tow me boat !!

[Richo]

I think its important to have something in your arsenal that will stop a fish anywhere in its tracks, I fish with a Breamreaper (which has these capabilities), and a Jerking Special HLZ and then the Finesse Solid SLim HLZ 4-10pd for the biggies.

The solid slim is mainly for my stump pulling and avoiding dangerous looking mussel incrusted pylons.

Thanks to skipper CraigS I managed to get out and give it a go on the weekend, It managed to nail a fat 41cm and another tall fat 45cm in 3 casts, and neither fish really made an impression on the rod - for their weight this was suprising - and to say the least I was a little impressed. I then hooked something which took more line than the 2 blackies before it but just didn`t have the weight - I was thinking Blackie, nah couldn`t be a smaller blackie that was stronger than the other 2, then much to my suprise out came a lil 30odd cm Sambo :rolleyes: tough lil sucker.

I still think a few different rods suited to different situations (flats, snags, leases, jetties) is the way to go. But I never leave home without the Stump Puller.

By the way the day you forget your camera is the day you have a ball.;) and get nice fish.

cheers

[Craig_S]

Yes Richard, nice tip that...do NOT forget your camera.

Me and Richo are standing in the dark ready to launch the boat and he says that he's left the camera at home. With a laugh Richo tells me that we'll probably end up with hooters on account of that...30 minutes later Richo is lifting the best bream I've seen in a fair while and what waould easily have been his Swan River PB. No scales, no camera but still 2 very excited anglers.

Still, I saw it mate and it was a corker.

[Richo]

:D On me way down you didn`t see me head butting the steering wheel driving down the freeway when I realised what Id done
:rolleyes: :mad: :rolleyes:

Still it was a day I won`t be forgetting in a while regardless of not having me camera (I should tar and feather myself), thanks heaps mate, it would have been nice to get a glimpse of the couple that got away ;)

cheers

[bluefin]

What is a stump puller?
I like my rods to stiffen up at about the drag setting I'm using.
That way if a fish wants 2 foot of line to reach an Oyster covered rock It must take it from the drag, not by bending a sloppy rod!
I love fast taper rods for that reason!
The only exception is when fishing 1kg on the flats. I love 1 kg line, have been enjoying it for 30 years! It is a totally different type of fishing!

[TheJigJedi]

I tend to agree...is a broomstick of a butt needed when a lot of the time, the bigger ones pull your jig head hooks and HB trebbles straight? If ya give the fish too much hell, the hooks bend out. There's gotta be some sort of compramise between a skull drag and free spool.

[Richo]

Originally posted by TheJigJedi
I tend to agree...is a broomstick of a butt needed when a lot of the time, the bigger ones pull your jig head hooks and HB trebbles straight? If ya give the fish too much hell, the hooks bend out. There's gotta be some sort of compramise between a skull drag and free spool.

Jiggy,

Cant say Ive ever had a treble straightened on any bream yet and very few jigs either - but Im using gamakatsus and would be most disapointed if they did straighten on a good fish. I definitly don`t try and skull drag them out - but there are occassions where if the bream makes it the 2ft to where hes trying to go then he`ll stitch you up big time - and I want to stop them right before getting there.

I know fishing oyster leases over East, Id be using close to a locked drag or end up spending a fortune on the 100 lures Id loose.

In the end it all depends where you are fishing, and as to how quick you want to stop them, some areas call for immediate and some dont.

JMO

Cheers

[Ravin]

In the end it all depends where you are fishing, and as to how quick you want to stop them, some areas call for immediate and some dont.

Thats hit the nail on the head. I fish 3 areas I wouldn't use anything other than my St Croix which is a very fast taper powerful rod & my drag is very heavy. All the other areas are open flats with few obstructions so a light rod & "normal" drag are all thats needed.

[TheJigJedi]

Richo...

Geez, I've straightened, and seen straightened HEAPS of jig heads! Especially squidgy heads. I've seen gammas go as well. It usually happens when the point doesn't go through the lip, just sits in the hard plate area.

I've got gamma trebbles on a couple of HB's that aren't exactly proporly curved anymore as well. I've seen a bream snap one of the arms of a diachi trebble too.

Maybe I'm just using a too tight drag?

Shane.

[Bear]

I think the other problem here is that we are trying to set the hooks either too early or too hard.

I got a few tips from Ira after he watched me plasticcing at the Canning and it's made a huge difference. It's changed the way I pull the bream from structure. Coax him as much as possible rather than skull drag the bugger.

Worth a thought.

(Ta Ira)

Hi Shane, I find your comments on hook straighting interesting, I don't think the problem is your drag, most of my fishing is for tropical species barra ,jacks etc, I use nothing but VMC red chem sharpened no.4 trebles, which are a pretty brittle hook. In the 7 or 8 years that I have been using them I have never had one straighten or brake on a fish, Iv broken plenty getting them out of fish.

When using softs I only use Nitro jig head mainly bass bullets even on barra and such, again Iv never had one brake or straighten, because of the terrain that our barra and jacks live in you really need to stop them before they get back in the mangrove roots, and because of this I fish with my drag almost locked up. I feel I get away with using lighter hooks and a heavier drag set up because of the way my rods are made and the fact I use mono.

Anyway some thing to think about.

Cheers Samurai

As being a lot like pink snapper...

They hit like Muhummad Ali, and pull like a Mack truck, for the first 30 - 60 seconds, after that they are a little "ho hum' compared to some species that CAN pull line (tuna's for example).

Therefore if your going to have some fun in a sampson like tussle - it's only going to be in those first 30 odd seconds when your trying to pull it's butthole thru it's dentures that your havin any 'real' fun...imagining some behemoth...that turns out to be just a respectable beam....once it nears the boat.

For this reason I like a rod with some grunt in the butt (remembering I fish fly not lures) so you can put the hurt on early and get line burns on the onkaparinga's etc...

If it had no grunt and was too noodly, - well an already "average", fighting fish would become 'not much fun at all'.....if you ask me!

No, I think you need a stump puller to have any fun putting the hurt on bream - otherwise you might as well be fishing for another species...

Cheers

(see if that don't draw the crabs like flies round a week ol muley in the bottom of the boat!) :D

[Richo]

Originally posted by TheJigJedi
Richo...

Geez, I've straightened, and seen straightened HEAPS of jig heads! Especially squidgy heads. I've seen gammas go as well. It usually happens when the point doesn't go through the lip, just sits in the hard plate area.

I've got gamma trebbles on a couple of HB's that aren't exactly proporly curved anymore as well. I've seen a bream snap one of the arms of a diachi trebble too.

Maybe I'm just using a too tight drag?

Shane.

Jig,
Ive straightened hooks before but never on a lost fish, and i know for sure Ive had fish put them out of shape (due to where it was hooked) but then I make sure I change them (religiously).

In saying that, I had straightened some squidgie hooks on snaggy bottoms when I started out so that dosn`t suprise me that you have also, but thats one of the reasons I changed to jigs only built on gama`s, unless I use the owner weedless.

I do use VMC trebles as well, because I like the thinner hook style, better penetration, but not quite as strong. But you just need to make sure you check them after every fish caught.

Do you change trebles before each session, they can get rusted on the inside without any visable signs?? that could be a factor.

As for drag settings - I fish heavy drag for sure - especially around structure, but thats me, I know plenty of guys who don`t, and they do very well.

cheers

[TheJigJedi]

I dont change the trebbles each trip, more like each 6 months. lol. If I changed em each trip I wouldn't be able to afford the petrol to get to the trip. ;)

I wish I had a digital camera to show ya's the shape that some bream sculpt the hooks into. I reckon some of em have an 'arty' side to them, lol.

when I say straight, I dont mean dead straight, but atleast past verticle if you hold the jig head sideways.

What are the BassMaster jigs hook made from? Any brand? Cos I actually found that they don't bend like the squidgy's. Also, a part of my problem might be that if I get one bent and munted, I grab the pliers and fix it...probably leaves the hooks week.

[dantheman]

G'day jigjedi
if you are fixing your bent jig heads, and straightening them back, they will be much more prone to re breaking, or bending,.i would chuck it and get a new one,
squidgie jig heads are crap. i find they bend to quickly,
just my opinion

cheers Dan
:D

[Richo]

Jig,

I know what you mean about changing them each trip, it costs a small fortune, Ive ended up taking new hooks Ive put on other lures and put them onto me favourites, and I got a sharpening stone - probably the best thing I did, touching them up every now and them really does work.

One thing you should take time to do is make sure the lures are dry when they go back in the box, even rinse them in fresh water and leave them to dry before storing them that certainly helps. Ive even sprayed the odd treble with lanox before putting it away, just becasue I know it`ll be rusty when it comes out otherwise. Same with jigs one wet one going back in can cause rust to the others

Just something to try.

And I also bend trebles back into shape providing they aren`t to damaged.

cheers.

I agree with you there Richo, I will use anywhere up to 20 or so different lures in a days fishing, but at the end of every day, I just fill up the washing basin with fresh water let the lures soak a while then pull the plug and let them dry, it's a pain in the a#@e but saves on new trebles.

Samurai

[TheJigJedi]

yeah, I normally just touch up the hooks with a sharpening stone as well...especailly the jig heads after they've been snagged and ya've given it a fair pull to try n get it loose b4 motoring over it with the rod tip. I also find that a lot of squidgy jig head bend right at the very tip[ of the hook (last mm or less) bends up making it almost impossible to hook up. Its hard to see so ya gotta run ya fingure over it, I usually file it down with a stone.

[TheJigJedi]

Went down to Mandurah yesterday...and yep...lost a deacent bream due to a snapped squidgy jig head. Just snapped right on the shank. Got a good look at the fish too. Nailed it almost under the boat.

Serpentine: 0 hits, 0 fish
Murray: Very thin and far between fish. 3 undersize, and a 37cm.

[Richo]

Nice work Jigy,

Getting fish down Mandurah at the moment is a bit of a coup, well done mate. ah your still using those jig heads though - I couldn`t even guess how to avoid the hook problems your having except lighter drag or better quality hooks maybe.

Ive got a heap of squidgie hooks myself, I do like them, and not one of them got wet last weekend (I stuck to the gamas) and went thru a heap of those, Im starting to wonder if i`ll ever use the squidgie hooks. But one thing that I like is the way softies sit on them. Once again nice work in Mandurah mate.

cheers

[TheJigJedi]

Cheers Richo.

Yeah, plastics do sit nicely on them with that little wire barb to hold em on. I know others that don't like the waire bit 'cos it rips ya plastics to shreds when ya change 'em.

I guess I'm learing the lesson the hard way...cheap jigs = cheap results. I might have to invest in some gammas I suppose.

Just on mandurah but...has anyone tried the cannals? We had a quick look in there and a couple dozen casts without any activity. Wasn't sure if any were in there.

Shane.