New Boat

[Jocool]

Hi peoples. Im new on here and have been going through the forums with a fair amount of interest. I dont mean to rub anyone up the wrong way, but I too would like to get your various inputs on a particular boat!

The boat I have seen, and am thinking very seriously about buying is a Stacer Nomad 455 in a tiller steer model. It will be equipped with all the bells and whistles associated with that model as well as a 50 HP TNT electric MERC.

I realise that I could probaly get a plate boat in a bare bones version a bit cheaper, but I figured Im going to add all that stuff to it as a matter of course, so why not get it all happening on a brand new hull, with a brand new motor, and most importantly a brand new WARRANTY!

Am I thinking wrong here?

[march fish]

Jocool,

I have been looking for a similar type of rig i.e. 4.55 Quinnie topender, but I liked the idea of the side console which I believe would give you better vision when travelling particular in river systems where there is likely to be some debris or shallow water.

Have you compared prices yet, I am interested to see the difference between the stacer and the quintrex?

Have you looked at a bow mount electric?

Why a Nomad not a hornet or similar?

Sorry for all the questions just some things that have been running through my mind.

Cheers

Just a hint that a side console isn't always such a great thing...for a host of resons..

1. If your the only one in it - then you have to ballast the boat with your 'other gear' so it doesn't list to one side all the time.

2. in any sidewind from the console side of the boat - where spray is a consideration it's almost impossible to "get away from it'' so you have to pu up with gettinng bloody wet.

3. When stationary and fishing - (OK maybe not for bream - but bigger species) anything big that takes you around the boat, means your gonna be climbing all over that console to try andland it without breaking a rod.

Someone I know who fishes a bit and had one claimed he wouldn't have another side console for those reasons.

Plate versus pressed/stretchformed alloy..horses for courses, depends on where & how you use it, in fresh or salt, and how long you wan't it to last against what it costs to buy & weighs to tow and power with an OB...

For me plates the go, but I've fished from (and owned) pressed stretchformed alloy boats in the past and wouldn't hestitate to buy another if I had the use and it was the 'right price'.

Cheers

Hi Guys, as the owner of a plate boat with a side console, I must agree with Trouty about the side wind spray but not with his other points:D .

I have owned both styles and would not go back to a streched alloy hull for all the tea in China, the advantages of a plate hull far out weight those of a streched hull.

But in saying all that, not all builders of plate boats know how to build a good boat, in fact they are few and far between.

Cheers Samurai

I wuz tryin to be diplomatic...what i really meant was stretch formed/pressed/ thin aloy boats suck and you couldn't gimme one if i won it in a fricken raffle.......because they dissolve like asprin when you put em near salt water.....:rolleyes:

Trubble is- evry time I say what i think, it upsets all those folks with boats built of recycled soda cans......and they get all uppitty about it. :D :cool:

Plates the only way to fly - but hey, only a plate boat owner would know that...

I never even mentioned the low grade alloy the tinnies are made from...

Plate

Plate

Plate

&

Mercury....once you've had black - you'll never go back! ;)

Cheers!

[Jocool]

Strange that Im replying to my own post...but here goes!

The Stacer I am looking at is made of 3mm bottom and 1.6 topsides. I wont bore you with all the added fittings such as live tank and so forth that the boat has... I have been given a price for one, with a 50 hp merc elec tnt of $15,700. That is with all rego's paid and ready to go.

The other boats im looking at, all with pretty much the same spec level, are Seajay escape with Honda 4 stroke 40 $16k or Johnno 40 2 stroke $13.9k (no TNT on Johnno). Savage Koroboree 450 $19k. Horizon Northerner 50 merc elec tnt $15.5k

I only found out bout the Horizon today.And its looking good so far, but I'd like to know more about it first. Can anyone comment on the Horizon?

All these boats come speced the way I want them except the savage. It doesnt have an underfloor fuel tank. And I found out today also that I can get a Seajay Castaway, which is nearly the same as the Escape cept no tank and rear cast platform for about $1.5k less!

More investigation needed.

And to think..ALL I WANTED WAS A BLOODY TINNIE!!!:confused:

Any way..... I am dead set against a side console (dont need it) and I want something in a v hull rather than a punt such as a hornet so as I can sneak outside sometimes! Besides, the hornets are bloody expensive!!!

I'd like to say yeah I'll get a platey...but I'm afraid that wont happen with my budget if I want to keep it all new! Sorry Samuari..I dont mean to get up your nose! I've seen your replies...and I REALLY REALLY dont want to upset you!:D

Like I said...MORE INVESTIGATION NEEDED!

[Jocool]

Hey March...

To answer your questions specifically, a comparably speced top ender runs out to $20k!!!! Granted it has the u beaut Mellinium hull...but TWENTY GRAND!!!

An electric motor hasnt come into the equation yet...but it will be!

As far as why I didnt opt for the Hornet..2 reasons.

1: Purely and simply Price. For me to get the seating capacity I want. I need to be able to carry 5 for that rare occasion that the missus says YES :D when I politely ask if she wants to go along with me and my 3 kids!
2: I want to have a relatively soft dry ride and good freeboard if I do decide to go outside on a good day!

Hi Jocool, lol get up my nose never:D ask anyone here, I never get upset or riled up:D .

Anyway mate of all the brands you mention probably the best one would be the Seajay. They are a well made and finished boat, several mates of mine up north have Seajay and are very happy with them, and the guys up north are not exactly kind to their boats (if you kinow what I mean), but serious the Seajay is a good boat.

Cheers Samurai

[march fish]

JoCool,

The issue of safety, i.e Kids and poking outside on a good day has me thinking of a top ender/nomad instead of a punt/hornet.

$4K difference between the Stacer and the Quintrex certainly buys you a considerable amount of fuel, therefore it would be hard to go to the quintrex.

How does the stability at rest compare with the punt/hornet style?

My concern with Hornets is also all the trouble people are having with porpoising.

Cheers

[Jocool]

March...

In so far as the stability at rest goes...the hornet would be more stable, but I'm used to runnin round in a v hull...so I dont mind it too much. As for the kids? I'm sure they will learn!LOL

And Samauri..

At this stage I am thinking seriously bout the Seajay. They are 3mm bottom and 2mm topsides. And to reduce costs I can always go to the Castaway rather than the Escape!

[matchangler]

i went down the same road as you jocool have a look at a 4.5 trailcraft, it will cost u about 20 gs but hey man it pisses on the quinny,4mm bottom 3mm sides 5year hull warranty,rear transom door,65lt under floor tank,fully welded self draining deck,raised casting decketc etc if you kick the hull on a tinny it will dent ,try it on a trailcraft and you,ll break your foot, watch your plywood floor twist and buckle on a tinny ask why they don,t put tinnies on fully rollered trailers because they dent and twist, but don,t let me sway you towards plate boats go to www.trailcraft.com.au all the best .......... tim

Can any one tell me the price of a Hornet on trailer with motor, seats and carpet. The standard boat yard retail price

Samurai

[Craig_S]

Samurai, just to keep the discussion rolling:

400 Hornet Trophy, say 30 HP - $11,000

445 HT, 60hp side console, lots of fancy bits - $22,000.

Not sure where this going, but it promises to be interesting:)

from memory the tiller steer Merc 50 Hp 4 stroke elptt (electric start power tilt n trim), runs at about $8 K or a little more?($9K?) with tank and hose (someone correct me if i'm way out).

So - if your getting a whole boat motor trailer and lifejackets flares etc, for 11K...then thats not a whole lot of $ allocated the hull and trailer....

In this world, you mostly only get what you pay for and if I were plonking $8 or $9k worth of new Merc 4 banger on the back - I'd spend a little more on the hull itself if it were me...

Cheers!

[Bear]

Tim,
What size donk and electric did you put on the Trailcraft?? Probably one of the best finished boats I've tested yet. Well done mate.

[matchangler]

yeh man it looks great i put a 60 merc 4 / and a 55 ap saltwater riptide wat u reckon

[Bear]

Go like the clappers with the 60 mate.

Just curios to see how it goes with the 55lb. Should be OK, but was just after some feedback.

[Jocool]

Trouty...

The 2 stroke 50 merc with ptt and elec start is $6274. And I think the Honda 4 stroke is about $8500.

Let me just add to the confuson.... One quote I have from a large reputable western Sydney boat sales yard for the Seajay Escape came in at $1999.00! Another sales yard, admittedly further up the coast, quoted for the same package $16490.00!!!!

WHAT GIVES??????

[azza]

mate i have a 455 side console nomad with most of the bells and whistles live bait tank,underfloor fuel, side pockets etc have also just put in a humminbird 25x sounder.i would like to let you know that 1 up boat doesn't lay to one side that is noticeable gets up on the plane very easily with 50hp 4 stroke johnson and is pretty dry i haven't really tested it out in very rough conditions.i went for the nomad instead of a hornet for pretty much the same reasons (higher sides for my little girl)the finish on my boat is of the same standard of a quinnie as my mate just got a 475 hornet but i wouldnt swap mine for his if you want to know any more just email me.

The 2 stroke 50 merc with ptt and elec start is $6274

Ahh so the package you were looking at had a 2 banger not a 4 banger..hence a couple grand saving straight away (meaning the hull n trailer accounted for about 4 grand of the quoted total 11 grand?)

As I see it (having run a 2 stroke and now 4 stroke) OB's for years - theres just no comparison..

I guess everyone here knows bream are spooky critters...and the less noise the better....hence the essential interest in electric bowmount thrusters.
Heck - just banging the anchor chain when stopping to fish for bream can scare em all away...

So - a 4 stroke is defintely quieter, meaning you can sneak a little closer to the area you wish to fish before having to shut down and use the electric for the close up work, with a 2 stroke - you'll be using more battery power to get close..because you'll have to shut the 2 banger down further away and travel further on the electric if you don't want to spook them...

a two stroke is bloody useless for any slow trolling work (OK maybe not for bream but for other species in the protected bays like pike etc....2 bangers oil plugs and you have to burn that oil off every now n then with a high speed run (meaning wind all the rods and lures in and then re set them all out again....and repeat often = PIA, Pain in the AZZ).

Two strokes fumes over the back of the boat will drive you and your passengers nutso.

If you skimp and buy a 2 stroke - later on you'll kick yourself I reckon..

4 strokes are more fuel effiecient (cheaper fishing trip) or more range, OR more weight available inthe boat to carry livewell water in the case of bream fishing.

A decent plate boat with a 4 stroke, sounder, GPS, Electric, livewell, casting decks, etc etc isn't cheap BUT you CAN upgrade it a bit at a time as you can afford it over the years IF you start out with the right basic package..(i,e a good plate hull AND a decent 4 stroke OB)....all the other fruit can be added a bit at a time...

If you start out with a thin pressed / stretched bit of crap with a cheap 2 stroke....

A) you'll get next to nuthin for it when you want to sell either the hull or engine to upgrade, because others will be looking for the good stuff (Plate and 4 stroke)

B) It'll never be the same as a good platey with a 4 banger so you'll be outta pocket but maybe not happy with what you have bought.

C) The $ costs to upgrade from a thin stretch formed tinny and from a 2 stroke to a 4 stroke will seem like an insurmountable hurdle to accumulate all at the one time for many, whereas if you START with a good plate alloy hull and a 4 stroke - it might break the bank now - but the extra's fruit like a bow mount, sounders etc can come along a little at a time in subsequent years once you recover a little from the hurt of the initial hull and OB purchase.

Thats how I see it - obviously others just want their azz on the water and fish in the boat for the least $ as quick as they can..because they are sick of being shorebound...

There ARE ways to "get a plate boat cheap" like build it yourself from a kit if funds are tight.

I built My 16 ft plate barra boat for about $3.5K for the hull....if you don't count 4 weeks of part time labour.

Might not be everyones cup of tea - but hey it's what I could afford at the time. I might not have a 20 Grand hornet with the fancy paint...but I also own mine and don't have any boat payments every month....and my sorry azz is the same height above the water doing the same speed as the hornet owners, and I've never yet heard a fish say he wished he'd been hauled into a hornet instead!!!

I reckon all up My 16 ft plate boat with 50 4 stroke ELSELPTT Merc, Electric thruster, trailer, sounder, epirb, floatation foam, bilge pumps, running lights, radio, sat phone, carpets, anchors, flares, console, gear locker, 3 Batterys, water/fuel separator filter, barometer, clock, compass, Gps, two fuel tanks has set me back about $13 K's...and a lot of work...

There ARE ways to get what you want - and you can pay thru the nose and haul it away new from a dealer or work away at it bit bye bit as you can afford it yourself.

Me - I don't mind being patient, and playing the slowly slowly catchy monkey game - but others want the 'live now / pay later' option of buying it all new thru a dealer.

I guess it depends a lot on your cashflow and how much $ your time is worth to you.

best a luck & cheers!!

[march fish]

Azza,

I like the sound of the Nomad, I am toosing up between that and the quinnie topender, could you post some pics I am interested to see where you have monted the electric.

By the way what sort of money did you save over the quinnie.

I would have thought that you would get wetter with a tiller steer than with a side console, as you are further down the back with tiller steer.

I also thought that the Nomad looked safer for kids than the hornets/punts.

Do you have any issues with cavitation?

Cheers

[azza]

yes the nomad came in about 2 thousand dollars cheaper than the quinnie i had my uncle make up the travel cover for it to save a little bit more.cavitation doesn't seem to be an issue with the boat.no elec as yet money not allowing it my little girl has just spent a month in hospital and is not out of the woods yet but is recovering quite well.once she is better i will purchase an elec i think i will mount it on the left hand side with some slight mods to rail.i will try to take some pics on weekend and have a go at mailing them.

[Jocool]

To those that are interested, I think I have found the boat I'm after. It will be the Horizon Northerner 445 which is new in their model lineup.

It has all the bits I was after. Casting platforms, full flat floor, live bait tank, u/f fuel with deck fill, 4 seat possies, a big under deck hatch that will be converted to fish tank duties, transom step and rail, 3mm bottom and 2mm topsides.

It also comes with a side console which Im deleting.

It will be fitted with a 50 Merc with elec and ptt. I opted for a 2 stroke for 2 reasons. First was price, and second was...price also I guess when you look at it. I could have paid another 2K and got a Honda, but it would only have been a 40. To get a 50 Id pay more again.

The way I see it Id rather have the extra power, and then I can get an elect bow mount to keep it quiet when fishing!

The whole shebang on a trailer will come in at a tad over $15500, but at least then I wont have to spend up to do anything to the boat or motor!

I appreciate everyones input on the subject and thank you all. I do know that a platey would have been better, but it all comes down to budget. I'd much rather pay extra to get a new boat with warranty than try and skimp and possibly end up owning a dog of a boat! The same applied to the motor. I realise some people will think I'm paying too much when I could have gone out and bought a bare bones tinnie and a 15HP O/B, but this boat will not be JUST for fishing! I will be taking the kids out and they may want to just go swimming, or get pulled along on a air bob. Could you see me trying to pull an Air bob behind a skua with a 15???

So, for better or worse, Im going on the weekend to plonk down a big wad of money, and wait 5 weeks for it to come in!

Cheers everybody, and once again, thanks for all your input!

Hi Craid S, Iv never been interested in hornets hence my question about price, was just curious:D

Cheers Samurai

[jimi]

Jocool, is this the boat you got? If so, looks like a great little rig for all kinds of fishing. The price you got it for seems comparable to east coast prices.

Cheers
James

[Jocool]

yes jimi..it is the boat!

did u get the pics of the net? cos i couldnt find it anywhere!!

its comparable to east coast prices...cos i am on d east coast..LOL:D

[jimi]

ooops. Mental note, must stop assuming everyone lives in WA :rolleyes:

I got pics from here:

http://www.caboolture.hotkey.net.au/~bribieboats/New_Horizon/445_Northerner.htm

Cheers
James