Livewell pics for Scott

[Bear]

:)

[Bear]

:D

[Bear]

;)

[Bear]

:p

[Bear]

:cool:

[mark savage]

Hey Bear,
looks pretty good
Is that the water outlet joined up to the normal drain? I would have thought that the one on the side might have been a bit high for the inlet - i suppose the boat sits a bit lower in the water that it appears to 'on the dry' eh? :D
Have you included a pump inside or does the side inlet allow for water flow while stationary/drifting?

cheers

[Craig]

Mark

I can elaborate on the black boat pictured as it is now mine.

The outlet at the side is an overflow outlet i.e. if the live-well is overfilled it just runs out the side of the boat and not over the top of the well into the boat interior.

The live-well is filled by dropping a blige pump over the side and via some plastic tubing connected to an inlet, water flows into the well.

The standard method of emptying the live-well is through a drain hole in the bottom - when the plug is removed the water empties into the boat and out the back through the bung holes (obviously this is only done when the boat is out of the water!).

I have since added another smaller bilge pump to the inside of the live-well and connected plastic tubing that enables me to pump the water out through the overflow outlet to empty the live-well when the boat is still on the water. Additional plastic tubing and switches/taps enables the water in the well to be recirculated and aerated rather than pumping it out.

Always looking for ways to improve what is already a good product.

cheers

Craig

[mark savage]

Fair enough - some styles of live well that i've seen previously (NT/QLD) have a continous cycle of water using a pump or have nozzle sticking out the hull that provides water while motoring or have a sunken/false transom - the second two probably aren't that practical for a bream boat.

[Bear]

Hi guys,
Sorry I missed this. The idea is that you have an easy way to get a constant change of water without having to have the pump running all the time.

Craig. When we did the black boat, we weren't sure about the inlet at the transom. If you give Shane a call, I'm sure we can get it done for you as a fix. Let him know I said to call.

Yep, we are always on the lookout for ways to improve the system without making it too expensive. By all means, fire any suggestions our way.

[Geoff R]

Bear I apologize in advance for this, but drilling a hole in the side of your hull may not be the best option, have a look at Craig S's boat. They had to put three holes in it and it still didn't drain quick enough until Craig installed a Quintrex "Style" drain. By adding a spray bar to assist in oxygenation and slowing down the flow of water into the tank you may get away with a simple single drain at the transom end which looks a lot neater.
I expect to cop a lot of flack for this so "bring it ON":D
Regards Geoff
"available for further comment"

[Bear]

Flack arriving.

Guys, I don't know how many times I've said this, but the idea is not to have it on all of the time. You only need to have it on to fill it initially and the occasionally to top it up.

The idea was to stay away from noisy aerators.

Can't be any simpler.

[Geoff R]

A few of the boys "Sorry Bear" have had wells made and have a few stories, get in touch with guys like John "JJ" Jones, Alan "Durko" Durkin and Paul "saltydog, on witness protection program" Salter.
Regards Geoff

[Geoff R]

From my experience, having to turn on and off a livewell whilst trying to fish a high pressure event "SERIOUSLY" is going to account for, lost time fishing= less fish.
I am doing a refit at the moment where my tanks will switch on and off every 20 miutes turn the water over and i won't have to worry about it.
What happens if your non boater or even your self turns it on by accident and you don't notice= Your boat fills with water.
It's happend on my boat many times although mine drains properly, Craig S's boat needed further Drains installed + plumbing work and it looks unsitely:( . If you do it Bears way you have the trouble of bending over and turning it on and off, not only will you do it irregularly, you will forget to do it "I do". I say get the tank installed but look at other options than drilling through the side of your Hull. I want to catch more fish this season, Tournament Breamin is like Golf, you have to keep your mind on one thing and not be concentrating on livewells, your mates, food, water etc. Getting fish in the boat will be my mission, not worrying about the condition of them for weigh in, it will be allready taken care of.
I'm not having a go "Sorry Bear":)

[Stevo]

This is my simple setup, my livewell is built into the rear thwart.
The pump is situated at the rear of the boat where it sucks in the water and through the sprayhead in the livewell. The system works great and i have had no spillage problems in the boat. The only thing i would stress is to make sure the hole where the water runs out in the livewell is HIGHER than the exit hole in the side of your hull where the water will escape. If its the other way around the water will not be able to get out without the use of a pump.

The livewell switch is situated up the front where i use the electric so i can turn it on and off every half an hour or so.
A livewell timer will eliminate me turning it on and off if i wanted to install one.

The livewell

Stevo

[Stevo]

The boat,

You can see the white skin fitting towards the back where the water comes out.


Stevo

[Bear]

At last, some feedback.

The reason for not putting int he extra gadgets is cost. If you give most people the option they won't pay for one. Yep, a timer would do it though. Not a big deal.

The switch is easy fixed as well, though I'm yet to have a problem with mine, even with 6 guys on the boat. If it is though, we can easily swap for a rocket switch. These have covers that have to be lifted. Again, not a biggy I would have thought.

Also, the reason I haven't fitted spreaders is that I've been worried about how they stress the fish. That's a lot of noise and motion for a fish that is used to still water.

I'm all for ideas guys. Keep 'em coming.

[mark savage]

Bear you mentioned:
...but the idea is not to have it on all of the time. You only need to have it on to fill it initially and the occasionally to top it up.

The idea was to stay away from noisy aerators.

Don't take this the wrong way (you're the boat mod man :D) i just want some clarification on the above comment and to mention some experiences i've had with keeping livies in the past...

I've used 40 and 60 lt livetanks while shore fishing at night for a number of years and this is fairly equivailent to an insulated 60-80lt live tank in a boat (wrt heat, stress etc).
I normally keep say a dozen slimies/yellow tail/herring in that tank with an aerator going full time (small, portable, battery powered). The water reqires changing every hour or so just to get rid fish crap etc or they turn their toes up pretty quick. Aerators are actually very quiet and the fish tend to hang in the bubbles.
What i'm saying is that if you don't have a flush through type system you should require a good aerator - 10 x 500gm bream would chew up much more oxygen and generate more crap than a dozen yellow tail. I'm just thinking of their (bream) wellbeing ahead of money concerns.

cheers

[Bear]

Mark,
I probably haven't explained it properly. I have bleed holes in the tank that empty out via the hull. This drops the water level in the tank which you top up as required (regular basis, also gets rid of some of the crap as well). The wells I have are at least 100l, my current one is 150l, and this has worked well in hot and cool conditions.

If you wanted to pay more, you could quite easliy have a bilge pump that ran rather than relying on just bleed holes. As I've said, I'm just trying to keep cost down and wiring to a minimum.

The filler hole is at the bottom of the well which gives the water a good stir each time you give it a top up.

If you wanted to have it such that it was a constant flow, all you have to do is change the size of the pump. The ones I currently have fill the tank quickly, thus it will eventually overflow. A smaller flowing pump would take longer to fill, but be good enough to have the flow constant.

Lots of ways to kill a pig so to speak.

I've had bream in the tank a lot longer than a normal comp time and have not lost a fish. Tells me it must be working so far.

[mark savage]

sounds good to me - thanx for the explaination bear.
I think i'd personally go for the (low stream) continous pump method you suggested as it does away with having to use an aerator (assuming i ever get a boat :rolleyes: ).

I'll chip in my two cents worth here.

First of all the whole idea of having a livewell is so that IT IS ON ALL THE TIME! The whole idea is that at the start of the day you flick a switch on and that is it. The whole reason you have a livewell is so that you don't have to worry about the fish.

Secondly I fished out of Craig S's boat at the invitational as he kindly lent it to me for the weekend. Those holes on the outside of his boat don't work, end of story, no arguments, they are crap. The livewell filled to the top on me and flowed into the boat, it just doesn't go out the holes.

A PROPER livewell recirculates water and then pumps it out. The only reason you should have holes in the side of your boat is for the water to be pumped out.

All the boats in the US BASS circut have this system and most of the boats I saw at the Gold Coast Round also had this.

I would strongly reccommend that you don't use that hole in the side of the boat drain system, it just doesn't work. You'd be better off using a bucket and that in fact is what I did in Craig's boat, mate the drain holes just don't work.

The drain setup in the bottom of the well which acts as an over flow works better and my livewell next year will be on a timer so that once it's on you leave it on the whole day and you know that your fish are okay. The reason that ABT are introducing the rule next about plumbed livewells is because people forget.

That is my two cents worth..................

[Tony]

Ira,

That was about $2.53 worth mate take some back :D

One thing I hate about live wells in most of our boats over here,is the pickup point at the back of the transom.

My control linkages frooze up and it was cause of the salt spray from the livewell intake when you are on the plain. Heaps of spray comes up under the cowl and gets to places it is not ment to be.

The hole in the side of my boat work but they have to be big enough,some i have seen are placed higher than the live well and this will not work. I took the pole out of my livewell and put in a bung,it does not take up room in the middle of the tank.

Of the welded livewells these are the ones that crack sometimes and will fill your boat. :confused: Roto moulds will not do that ,but a 65 litre well is not realy big enough for 4 large Bass letalone 10 bream, this is why the wells in discussion here look great to me.

OK that is my $3.46 worth

P.S. still waiting on the W.A. Mag !!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Bear]

Blunt as always Ira, nothing changes.

The thing that worries me about a timed system is if it turns on while you're under power. If you can't suck water you burn out the pump.

Where would you have the fill point?

Oh, read below about how the well is supposed to work. Sorry if that didn't get explained better.

Once again, I don't have a problem with mine.

We live and learn, but when I don't get feedback I assume all is well. (couldn't resist the pun):D

That's me bear as you know, I don't always say what people wanna hear but I always say what I mean :)

Mate I'll be honest with you, I reckon in the next year there won't be a boat without a timed system. For the simple reason is that while you are doing water changes I'm fishing.

When I aksed JR (the WA camera man) why he thinks Spad's catches more fish them anyone else he simply said casue he spends more time fishing than anyone else.

It's not that your system doesn't work, it does, there is just a better, more hassle free way to do it.

The setup is easy, you fill via a blige pump that pumps the water in, a bilge pump is cheap as. You have a "Quintrex" style gravity plug so that once the water reaches a certain level it flows out the back of the boat. You have a cutout switch so that when the outboard is going the bilge pump can't work so it won't empty the well. Flick the switch and the start of the day and forget about it.

Your livewell must be different to Craig Stewarts cause quite simply his holes don't work period. The reason I posted is because I'd hate to see another person get 3 holes cut in the side of his boat that are useless.

Also how do you do water changes then Bear?

[bubba]

This whole thread has changed my ideas on the live well I was looking at putting in my Hornet.
Ira what sort of diagrams have you got on the setup you want? Ive seen both of Bear's and Craig's and thats how I was going to do mine. Its very cost effective and barring mishaps seems to work (well maybe not Craig's).
I am certainly interested in a cost vs each design.

[Craig_S]

Bubba, I think the system theoretically works, but you would need some kind of engineering calculation done to make sure it does in actuality.

You cant just whack a 500gph pump into a tank, throw some outlet holes in and believe it works. I think you would need to calculate the rate of fill and then calculate the diameter of the hole(s) required for it to outlet effectively. Dont know how you do this, no doubt Trouty or Jimi or someone does, but it didnt quite work for me.

[Bear]

'Your livewell must be different to Craig Stewarts cause quite simply his holes don't work period. The reason I posted is because I'd hate to see another person get 3 holes cut in the side of his boat that are useless.

Also how do you do water changes then Bear?'

First of all I don't have the pump on all the time, period. You fill the well to a level 'x' that then drains at a constant rate depending on whether the boat is tilted or not. Every so ofen, usually when I'm moving, I flick the switch and top it up. Fresh water in and warm water from the top out.

Easy, never had a fish snuff it and has been fine for me on many situations. Agreed, if you want to add a lot of other gear I could automate it a lot more, but a lot of guys can't afford it straight off or don't have the confidence to do it themselves.

If Craig had told me there was a problem, I would have MADE SURE IT WAS FIXED.

If he cares to let me know now I'll do the same. I've had LOTS of guys on both my boats and never had a problem. Even had it in the heat of the Perth comp and no problems.

[Dave W]

Originally posted by Ira Fehlberg
The setup is easy, you fill via a blige pump that pumps the water in, a bilge pump is cheap as. You have a "Quintrex" style gravity plug so that once the water reaches a certain level it flows out the back of the boat. You have a cutout switch so that when the outboard is going the bilge pump can't work so it won't empty the well. Flick the switch and the start of the day and forget about it.


Forgive me if I'm being silly, I'm just about to go through the whole livewell plumbing bit with the new boat.

If the water drains out of a 'gravity' type plug, that doesn't get rid of any surface scum right :confused:

I was going to set mine up as follow:

Pump (see pic below) attatched to transom (through hull) pumps water into the livewell via a 'spray head'
Overflow taken care of by exit hole through side of boat.
Pump is used to fill the livewell, overflow takes care of surface scum, spray head controls the incoming flow so I can back it off a bit if it looks to be filling too quickly.
Keep-Alive aerator installed (with an auto-timer) in livewell to pump air into the water, therefore I don't have to keep pulling fresh water in to re-oxygenate the livewell (and also solves the problem of different water temps in different locations).
Drain plug in bottom of livewell drains the water to the transom where an automatic bilge pump gets rid of it.


Can anyone see any problems??

[Bear]

Sounds good to me mate.

Can't wait to see the pics of the finished product.

One question, how do you back off the flow.

Ta mate.

[Dave W]

The spray head (bottom half of pic) can be turned to either open or closed (or anywhere in between) controlling flow, you can sort of see it in the pic.

If you've ever seen one of the 'Rule' livewell pump kits, it's a similar sort of head (a bit like the one in the picture below).


My only hassle is sourcing the auto switch, if I had the ability I'd build one (I've got plans) but I'm hopeless with curcuit boards and soldering irons :rolleyes: :D

[Stevo]

Bubba, My setup cost me under $200 for a custom welded tank, rule pump and fittings/hoses. I installed it myself though.

DaveW, my gravity fed outlet in my tank is 1.25" wide Which, just about all the frothy/surface scum exits, because the exit hole is on the left side of the tank, the spray head is on the right, so what you do is position the spray head so when its pushing water in, its also pushing it out in the same direction, you get like a swirling motion in your tank, kinda like an Eddie :D but ive never tried fishing in my tank yet:D

So at the end of the day you are left with some mussel shells in the bottom which i think we all get.

Its a simple but effective design and doesnt cost the earth.

Ive seen timers advertised on basspro for like $30 US, their a basic timer but they will do the job, the only think i worry about like bear mentioned is if the pump switches on and your underway, you will burn out alot of pumps.

Stevo

Dave W the gravity hole i mentioned is at the top of the livewell so all the surface scum and that goes out.

If u get one of those keep alive pumps the oxygen comes out in fine bubbles which is better......

In summary I just reckon that flicking a switch and forgetting about it is the way to go. At the WA Invitational I did forget and this showed me that people forget about doing water changes. With the gravity overflow plug it just does the water change for you....easy to setup and pretty cheap I reckon.

[Craig]

I feel inadequate!!

The system I have (as described earlier in this thread) is far less sophisticated.

As I am not the worlds greatest handyman I thought I was doing well to add another bilge pump and be able to pump the water out or recirculate it with some crude use of reticulation piping – sort of proud of my efforts (humbled now though).

But all this talk of timers, automatic pick up, cut out switches etc is beyond my capabilities; though I will be very interested to actually see some of these in action and see how they work. Fascinating stuff.

I generally follow the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) and that just about sums me up – guess I will just keep plodding along.

Cheers

Craig

[FisherMatt]

Interesting stuff guys, keep it coming.

Im about to build my livewell in the next couple of months, ready for the start of the season over here.

The setup i was gunna use was this.

500 GPH livewell pump (same as Andy was gunna use, see pic) with the pickup at the transom. This would pump into the livewell CONSTATNLY.

In the livewell itself i will run a 1000 GPH bilge pump which will pump the water back out through a hole in the transom. The bilge pump will be operated with a float switch. That is, when the water level reaches a certain point the float switch rises and turns the bilge pump on, thus lowering the water level in the livewell, untill the float switch falls, turning off the pump.

Now as the bilge pump pumps the water out twice as fast as its going in, the livewell should never overflow right??? Well at least in theory!!!

Any ideas or suggestions??

More clarification required??

I'd really love your ideas on this setup.

Thanks guys.

[jimi]

Matt, that sounds like a good idea, I was thinking the same thing with the float switch idea.

Just a couple of points
- When you get float switch, make sure it is the non-cycling type. With the water swishing around in there when the boat rocks, the switch will be on and off like a yo-yo which may burn out the pump. A non-cycling switch will protect it from this a bit.

- Keeping your pump running all the time may cause some problems. If you are on the plane, you would not want the pump on as it will run dry which can damage the pump. Also life in the tank might not be too pleasant with a current running all the time :D

-More importantly, if the float switch or outlet pump stuffs up you will flood your boat in no time flat. An overflow pipe as well as your outlet pump will help.

If you use your proposed system with some kind of timer on the inlet pump (the outlet is automatically controlled by the float switch) it would be a pretty good system.
Just my thoughts.

James.

[FisherMatt]

Jimi.

I had thought that the pump burnout would pose a problem, ill have to come up with another place to mount it i think.

Yeah, i had figured that if the bilge pump failed id be flooded in no time, i guess i'd just have to keep an eye on it.

Thanks for the idea on the float switch, I was wondering how it would cope with all the water sloshing about.

Its still in the planning stage at the moment, so all ideas are welcomed.

Thanks Guys

hey guys.
I dont own a boat, but i'm interested in the ideas as i have an aquarium background.
Why not run an inlet pump and an outlet pump of the same power (output)? That way you can fill the livewell then turn on the outlet pump (leaving the inlet pump on) and have a constant level, constant flow livewell. Temp and water clarity wont be a prob, and neither will oxygen! Simply turn the switch off when driving and on when fishing.
If your forgetting about livewell pumps and are worried about leaving them on when driving, why not leave a msg on your rod racks/holders or at the engine starter (cord or button for those who can afford it)? As i'm a pilot, checks like these are common and not a hassle at all!
just my thoughts

Dave

[jimi]

Kingpin, you could match the pumps, but personally I think that the outlet should have more capacity than the inlet (whether it is a pump or simply an overflow pipe).

If the pumps are not perfectly matched, or the outlet gets blocked/slows down for whatever reason, water will eventually start flowing into the boat. If that goes unnoticed for too long, it could be very bad news, particluarly for boats with full floors since you can't see the water until it gets quite high.

Cheers
James.

[Geoff R]

I think if we are talking about cheap simple solutions having a "Quintrex style" over flow of about 20 to 25mm diameter will suffice for an overflow out the back of the transom.
I think putting in that "bernouli effect" system to oxygenate the water at the bottom of the tank is also a good solution.

I can see a few "minor" problems with your suggested setup...that might sink your boat on you if your not carefull.

1. No seacock on the inside of the transom thruhull before the attwell pump. i.e what happens if the plastic pipe between transom thru hull and pump breaks though bouncing off waves and the leverage weight of the pump on the end of the pipe fractures it eventually once it hardens with age and exposure to water & elements?

(Clue - any boat with ANY thru hull should have a seacock installed AND should carry tapered wooden dowells that can be driven in if necessary from the outside to stem a flow of water).

2. Plumbing the Attwell pump straight off the thru hull without a riser loop is dangerous...what if when the pump is turned of - it back siphons and fills your boat or alternatley drains your livewell - either way you sink or the fish die - neither would be a good result.

3. Relying on your boats main auto float bilge pump to empty the livewell water drained into the bilge seems to me to be asking for trouble, It's there in an emergency to stop you sinking not to get rid of the livewell water on a constant basis IMHO. If your boats holed and taking on water - you don't want that emergency bilge pump dealing with livewell water as well. I think you should pump your livewell water out again just under gunnel height (at the top of transom if you like).

The Bilge on the hornet should be foam filled? do you really want wet foam and say saltwater / brackish water living under your hull floor aganst the hull bottom where electrolyss can get started? Is there chemicals in the fiore retardent flotation foam that might harms the fish (or the environment?) etc

4. Aeration helps to get the CO2 out which is as important as getting oxygen in...you could incorporate the venturi system I described in an earlier post into your plumbing system to assist with aeration in addition to the keep alive aerator.

5. The idea of oxygen infusion isn't such a bad idea..fine oxy diffuser stone, and some old fire extinguishers cleaned out and low pressure oxygen decanted into em from a oxy bottle (oxy acetylene kit) kept at home - you slowly allow a fine mist of oxygen into the water all day - swapping oxygen extinguishers containers with those snaplock compressed air fittings and hose.

Oxy infused water will keep any fish alive forever assuming you have the aeration to remove the co2 buildup.

The fire extinguishers come with their own gauge so you can tell how full they are and are relatively low pressure (~120 psi?) so not as dangerous as the 3000 psi oxy/acetylene type bottles from a transport and storeage perspective..

Paint em a different color than ya normal fire extinguisher so no one points em at a fire bye mistake and makes it worse.

You can get a oxygen decanter fitting from that USA website "Keep Alive", it has it's own pressure reduction valve so you can fill low pressure containers like extinguishers. You could even fit a safety relief valve into your extinguisher bodies, just like the pressure reciever on a normal compressor has, just so you can't "overfill" the extinguishers.

You'd need to replace the trigger handle for a gas regulator (BBQ type) so you could trickle feed the oxy infuser..

Snap on airline fittings - spare extinguishers of oxy, and aerator and with exchanged water you could just about keep any type fish in it like an aquarium...

A lot of it's the sorta stuff a gas fitter / plumber worth his salt should be able to do for you...and all you need is to know someone in the fire extinguisher business to access the spare bottles...

My $5.00 worth!;)

Cheers!

[danh124]

oxygen actualy does not remove the co2 from the water in fact to much o2 will kill fish, Air however does remove co2 and you cant out to much air in the water.
check out this web page http://www.keepalive.net/guide.htm.
I am currently instaling a livwell system,
Pump mounted on a scoop that forces water into the pump base while under way (pump is submerged whilst stationary) with a pipe that runs over the transom.
This allows me to just turn it on and leave it going regardless of if im underway or stationary.
A 1 3/4 overflow straight through the side of the hull.
a flow rite airator/pump out to recirculate and empty the well at the end of the day.
I think this will cover all bases raised in the above post.
i awaite any feed back.

[Cod-Fish]

This post is 8 years old bud....

[danh124]

ok cool
so what, i think it is still a resource that can be used as i am/have whilst doing my research into instaling a live well.
if you dont have anything nice to say bla bla bla