FW MotorGuides In the Salt?

[seqfisho]

Hi All,

Went and had a look at the motorguides and Minn Kotas today, boy what a shock to the hip pocket nerve those minn kotas were.

The 55lb riptide auto pilot was $1900 and the motorguide great white was a 82lb 24v job, the only saltwater bowmount that they make.

I had a look at the 54lb freshwater unit from motorguide and figured that it must be the motor that a lot of you guys are using and was interested to see how they were faring in the saltwater.

I think that I have read in a previous post that the warranty is void for any salt damage but other problems would be covered, was this from the dealer or from Mercury (motorguide distributers) themselves.

The dealer said to me that there would be no warranty on a motor used in the salt, but at the grand sum of about $850 for a 54lb bowmount then if they are doing ok in the salt with some preventative maint and TLC then I think they would be well worth the risk, so guys whats your opinions are they holding up ok in the salt, because they certainly win in the price stakes.

Regards Glen.

I'll tell you up front right from the start that I'm sponsored by Minn Kota, just so you know.......

In my opinion Motor Guides win in the price stakes but that is about all they win. Like you said there is no warranty if you take the freshwater model in saltwater, plus the bearing will rust out in about a year and apparently they are about $20 to replace. Cheap but rust will be a problem in these units within a year or so.

The Motor Guide shaft is stainless steel, two problems here, one steel and saltwater don’t mix and for anyone who has an electric bow mount will tell you, you can’t avoid hitting snags and rocks from time to time. Minn Kota have a lifetime warranty on the shaft, snap it in half and they replace it, it is flexible and bullet proof. Once Steel has bent that is it, it don’t bend back.

The other problem with Motor Guides if you look at them the circuit board is all open to the salt water and weather, Minn Kota’s are covered and have a plastic covering to protect them.

Motor guides can only be driven sitting down as they way the pedal works is very different from a Kota. They are almost impossible to drive standing up which is a disadvantage as you simply can't see where you are casting too as good, you’ll see less fish and you certainly won’t Polaroid any fish sitting down. You can't cast as far sitting down or as accurately. At the end of the day you will catch less fish sitting down all day.

Motor Guides don’t have auto pilot so you can’t work banks unless you are sitting down with your foot on the pedal constantly, or standing up balancing with one foot on the pedal and one foot off, which is very hard to do.

You can’t get instant power from a Motor Guide without pressing the pedal which also changes direction. Again very hard to do.

Minn Kotas allow you to have power on a value from 1 to 10, this allows you to hang in currents etc. Motor Guide goes from 1 to 5 I think.

Seriously my advice is drive a boat with a Motor Guide on it and drive a boat with a Minn Kota on it, you will see exactly what I mean. A Minn Kota may cost more but that is why a HSV costs more than a Pulsar.

I’ve got $100 that say anyone who buys a Motor Guide and has it for a year or so wouldn’t buy one again, their next purchase will be a Kota for sure…….

[Richo]

I`ll have to agree with Ira as well. Ive watched with interest and even managed to use a couple of kotas and M/Guides in the last few months. Intially I was most impressed by the the M/Gs went compared to the kotas especially for value, but as Ira said after a litlle while you find the control pedal a real pain because you do have to balance on one foot compared to the kota setup with auto pilot - that was the main factor I found. Although I own neither I know what i`ll be purchasing. The warranty factor alone is great - I know they have looked after a couple of WA guys really well with fixing thiers.

cheers

[Bassifier]

I've always had bow mount Minns, and yes they are more expensive than MG's.
I agree, the motorguide being only $850 is sorely tempting but you are also getting a awkward footplate, inferior saltwater protection and frankly a ungainly design overall.

But Minn Kotas keep breaking down all the time so I dont know what to tell you:D :( :D :) :( :eek:

ps, a RT55AP should cost no more than $1550:eek:

[Dave W]

As an owner of one of the first Bow-Mount Auto Pilot Minn-Kota's to hit the country (all 36lbs of it :D ) I have to say that I could not use a Motorguide unless there was some sort of Auto Pilot function.

Most of the areas we fish are current (or wind) affected in some way and the Auto Pilot on the Minn-Kota's is the only way to fish into a current or wind, once you get the speed right ;)

I'm not saying you can't do it with a Motorguide, but it's bloody difficult to hold on the same spot into current, controlling direction as well as speed....

My advice is to give both a go in 'real' situations, and see which one you prefer - I can guarantee that once you get used to the Minn-Kota you won't change :)

Now..... if they only made a servo driven Minn-Kota Auto-Pilot model that turned as quick as the Motorguide cable steer :rolleyes: I can dream can't I.............:D

Cheers,

[Bear]

The thing that really worries me about the MG is the shaft. I would be really worried about bouncing them off some of the things I've bounced the Kota off.

[Craig_S]

Glen, I'm going to weigh into this discussion...I'm a Motorguide owner and have been using mine for just on four months now.

First up, a lot of the comments preceeding this have centred around the lack of Auto Pilot on the MG. This is fact, there is no A/P on the MG cable steer, nor is there on the Kota cable steer. What they're all talking about here is a choice between between servo or cable, not Motorguide or Kota. Cable steer is massively more responsive and manouverable than with a servo system, but you cant have auto pilot. Thats the choice.

A few of the guys have pointed out that you cant stand and steer. In fact you can. Ira and Richo have both had a bash at mine so I know where they're coming from, but with practice you can. Be warned that in lumpy water this becomes more difficult, as does the simple act of standing there, irrespective of Kota or MG. A chair makes it a lot more comfortable as I have recently discovered but again this is common to both.

Dave makes a point that you cant hold a stationary spot into the wind. Probably correct here I think, it would need an exceptional degree of subtlety to do it. Why you would feel the need to do it is another question...maybe throw the anchor instead lol. Someone else has said you cant fish banks very well without auto pilot. Dont agree, this kind of centred around the "cant steer and stand" thing. Out of interest, I've seen more than one boat on autopilot swinging around on windy days, making it difficult to fish properly, because the servo is slow to respond.

Theres a couple of other minor points made. "Ungainly" design - this would refer to the clamshell nature of the way the unit drops into the water. The Kota cable steer works the same way. Its another of the decisions to be made in choosing between the 2 steering methods. The cable steer arrangement I would guess takes up about 3 times as much mounting space as the Kota servo steer. Ira pointed out a problem with instant power and changing direction. Again this is something that comes with practice.

It sounds like I'm saying a lot of things come with practice, but they do. I've also seen Kota newbies on their knees pressing the pedal with their hands because they cant figure out how to do it with their feet. Everything will come in time.

Shaft composition is an excellent point to think about. Kotas have a composite polymer/glass fibre shaft with lifetime guarantee. MG have a stainless shaft covered only by the standard 2 year guarantee.

Rust could be a consideration with the MG. The bearings that Ira mentioned has been a hotspot but my feedback has been that stuff like linox will prevent this. A sacrificial anode goes without saying. Using the MG in a situation that may promote rust, ie saltwater, may void part of the warranty. I cant find a definition of saltwater in my warranty.

Having got that out of the way - my main reason for purchasing a cable steer MG was that it was $850. At the time I bought my boat my wife became temporarily unbalanced and demanded we spend money on renovations rather than boat building. Accordingly, everthing to do with the boat had its cost slashed, rather than do without. The MG was the cheapest bow mount, foot control electric I could find. Problem solved, $700 saved.

A good question was what might that $700 have bought if it had been available to be spent:

1. The satisfaction of a much superior guarantee.

2. Better build quality. EG the Kota cable steer has a nice rubber foot pad compared to the thick plastic of the MG (there are other minor examples)

3. More subtlety. Eg the Kota has 1-10 speed control while the MG has 1-5.

Man, I hope this has added something to the argument, I've gone on for so long I've actually forgotten the question.

[Bassifier]

He was comparing the RT55AP to the MG, not the Cable steer Minn to the MG.

Really, how much responsiveness do we need?
I understand that the servo style is slower than the Cable steer, but what does this really mean? How do you use this fraction more reaction speed to greater effect?

I have used both styles, minn and MG, servo and cable.
I personally prefer the ergonomic design of the minn servo pedal it is, lets face it so much easier to use standing up.

If you wanna sit down and save some cash, get the MG.
If you wanna spot that black about to inhale your stick bait and still have the use of both legs at the end of a twelve hour session get the RT55AP.:p

Richard.:) :D

[Craig_S]

All good points Bassifier. It just struck me that if you read the previous posts you would believe that the MG was a pig of a thing and near on impossible to use, which is not the case.

I prefer the build quality of the Kota by a long stroke, but at the time I got my boat everything ended up being a compromise. I think the main point to keep in mind is that you will get exactly what you pay for. If the MG saves $700 it is because there is $700 of "something" that hasnt been included.

[madsurfe]

I'll have my 2 cents worth given I'm the only cable steer Minn Kota in the Perth Breamers, as far as I know. I have an an All Terrain Minn Kota AT36 which is the freshwater model. Buschy upgraded from an AT36 to the Maxxum 55 which is the higher spec freshwater cable steer and he swears by the cable steer. Minn Kota (MK) don't make a saltwater cable steer. I love my cable steer and it took a while to get used to as it does with any product. I have also used the Riptide and would not purchase one because of the servo response. It is not to my liking and I can live without the Auto Pilot. I have also spent quite a few hours driving a Motorguide (MG) thanks to John Jones. There were two notable exceptions in the way that the MG & the MK work.

1) Pedal friction or rather lack of it on the MG, now I said to John that if I owned a MG I would be looking at the way the pedal rotates as compared to the MK it is too sloppy in feel. It needs an adjustable friction bush so that you can make small adjustments. It is really difficult to maintain small adjustments with the pedal that moves with the slightest hint of pressure.

2) Composite versus stainless shaft. The answer is obvious, we know the composite wins. I have seen my shaft bounce of the bottom of the hull after smacking a rock and all is still well. The MG takes this situation into account by having a spring mechanism in the head of the mounting bracket. Now it will take a knock but it won't come out straight if it gets to the limit after folding away. I didn't like the spring feature and how it folded under load, sort of bouncing.

In all honesty you pay for what you get so if your pushing for $ then get a MG and if you want better performance go for a MK.
But even more important is that I would rather see someone out there with an electric motor than not at all. Both products will add pleasure to your fishing.

Now my MK shows no sign of saltwater damage after pretty well using it hard over the past 10 months. I've studied the internals and just rinsed with freshwater after use and applied a dewatering fluid. Also repacked the shaft bearing.

[Fishaholic]

I've been out on people's boats with both, but admittedly I haven't owned a foot operated leccie yet. As a 'neutral observer' it seemed to me that both motors were as competent as the operator and neither limited the operator due to inherent shortcomings in their designs. It was simply a matter of the operator getting to know how to make the motor do what they needed it to do..... or so it appeared to me as an observer, anyhow. My point is that yes they are very different motors, but they both appear to be capable of fullfilling their role. The rust issue comes down to maintenance, and I beleive that MG have a breakaway option available that allows the shaft mounting point to give rather than bend the shaft.

But look at the price difference... the 700-odd buck you save with the MG buys a very good sounder, or some smick tackle....

Just my thoughts.

Cheers,
Gab.

[Bassifier]

Originally posted by Craig_S If the MG saves $700 it is because there is $700 of "something" that hasnt been included. . [/B]

I agree that the Minns are now overpriced in the market.
But what do you think will happen? Minn kota drop their prices or will MG up them?:D

Really, how much responsiveness do we need?
I understand that the servo style is slower than the Cable steer, but what does this really mean? How do you use this fraction more reaction speed to greater effect?

Can anyone give me some valid reasons why cable is better than servo?

I'm not after a fight:) I'm just interested, because I cant really work out the benefit myself.
:confused:

Richard.

[Craig_S]

Bassifier, my post wasnt to say that MK was overpriced, more that the MG was probably missing $700 of inbuilt quality.

Hard to see anyone's price coming down but.

Just as an interesting , but pointless, observation: When I bought my MG from Portside Marine in Fremantle they had sold more to chocolate factories as vat stirrers than they had to boaters.

[Bassifier]

I think we'll be hard pressed to locate that $700 worth of quality though huh?!:D

you can get kotas here for $1595.....

[Richo]

Originally posted by Craig_S
When I bought my MG from Portside Marine in Fremantle they had sold more to chocolate factories as vat stirrers than they had to boaters.

Chocolate Bream mmmmmmmmmmm

[Dave W]

Originally posted by Craig_S

Dave makes a point that you cant hold a stationary spot into the wind. Probably correct here I think, it would need an exceptional degree of subtlety to do it. Why you would feel the need to do it is another question...maybe throw the anchor instead lol.

I probably should have explained how I operate a bit better....... :)

The AP function is tops for very slow creeping into the current, without having to adjust the pedal at all.

I use it to hit a snag with a few casts, up the power to get to the next section, then back off to hold current again - without having to change direction.

I can sympathise with new owners out there - I originally picked the foot control up and steered with my hands........... takes a while to get used to the finesse of the steering :D

I've been told that cable steer motors outsell everything else in the states - most of the pro Bass guys use cable steer exclusively, but do they have to put up with tide changes like we do :confused: :D

One other thing, if you enjoy a bit of freshwater trolling, using the AP to run along a bank is great - kick back, drink a couple of sherbets etc......

We haven't brought up the 'Pinpoint' motors yet - these boys use transducers to hold from the bank (or structure) however far you program in, or at a certain depth - sounds like a trollers dream :D

Cheers,

[seqfisho]

Gee Guys,

All I really wanted to know was how the saltwater was affecting the MGs that you guys are using, my intended use is 50% fresh and around 30% saltwater, it will be left at home when we run out into the bay and close offshore sorties (Im lucky enough to be located on the shores of lovely Moreton Bay SEQueensland), It will really be used for the manouvering and positioning for cast and retreive fishing in the canals and same in our bass dams.

Many years ago I run an old 33lb Shakespeare transom mount off my 3.85 Explorer and with regular washes and maintenance never missed a beat.

I think that having never used a foot control of either type, I wont be so biased into the difference of responsivness between the two types, I"ll just be happy to have a elecy that will help make life easier.

I really think that MK are a bit over priced, considering the price difference there doesnt seem to be that many dollars worth of quality, there certainly not twice the motor of the MG.

One thing of intrest that I have noticed is the pics in the MK brochere of Tim (The Bream) Morgan holding a fish (Bream) at the bow of his Hornet and kneeling behind his MK MAXXUM bowmount, I know that Tim either works for or is very closely linked with BLA the Australian MK people , so why does he run a FW motor in the salt, maybe they arent anywhere near as problematic as the wnty would like us to beleive. Anything electric doesnt mix well with water so the basiscs should be well protected, the rest is up to TLC which should be easy to provide.

Thanks so far guys for all the input, the info has been great, keep it coming.

Regards Glen.

[madaff]

so why does he run a FW motor in the salt, maybe they aren't anywhere near as problematic as the wnty would like us beleive. Anthing electric doesn't mix well with water so the basiscs should be well protected, the rest is up to TLC which should be easy to provide.

Mate you said it.

Considering that the motor itself is fully sealed, them how the hell will it make any difference. The only difference that I have seen in any elec motor is that the mother board is sealed in epoxy. Solution, keep it clean and spray some Inox, vegi based product which is harmless.

BENDING SHAFTS (solution) easy, learn to cast straight and watch where your going. Also the Motorguide has a breakaway system on it also.

Rusting bearings (solution) if there $20 then buy 5 of the bloody things.

Steel and saltwater( no solution there), as stainless steel is the prefered metal in all saltwater enviroments. If someone could afford a stainless steel gasoline motor then they would be everywhere.

As for steering( did you fall off a bike the first time you tried to ride it).

I use a 54lb MG in the in the salt and it's perfect for me.

Oh yeh the spare $600 is about 6 plus months worth of fuel.

;)

1st up - I'm not sponsored bye either MG or MK... my comments are what I've found from using and destroying both over about 7 or 8 years of charter guiding.

The MK Riptide s/water are good in as far as the maximiser goes, the batterys last longer with a MK maximiser than they do with the MG.

The MK isn't as good in as far as their plastic parts, they turn from black to grey in the sun over a couple years go brittle, and break - meaning, the screws go thru the plastic clamps for shaft height, and score that graphite shaft...a LOT. The plastic tilt bracket likewise goes grey then brittle.

The MK threads in the shaft clamps, eventually sieze also and the plastic knob on top breaks off before you can get the thread loose.. you can't glue it back on with cyanoacrylate or epoxy resins - i tried, it won't take to the plastic or the serrated head of the screws.

Yes - I did lube the threads with crc & grease occasionally to try and prevent it...and I tried all sorts of penetrating fuids to release it - nada...cactus pooptus recti.

Again still on the Minn Kota's, I did wear the lower unit out - the thrust bearing/thrust washer must be soft. Eventually after a lot of forward reverse use, you end up with up to half an inch forward and back "play" on prop the shaft, then they leak because the seals can't handle the play in the prop shaft.

I never broke a shaft on the MK - but then again I've never broken the SS shaft on the MG either and I hit all the same snags with regularity.....and my boat at over a tonne takes a lot of stopping with a few knots of current and some momentum behind it. I don't believe broken shafts is an issue for either brand, post up all these bent MG shafts photo's guys, I'm keen to see a few!

Now, Problems with Motorguide.

Being a freshwater unit the transom clamps threads for transom trollers - are galvanised and do rust - and yes I keep em greased with the red Mercury marine grease.

5 speeds I've never found to be a problem.

The screws for height adjustment also rust/freeze - just like the kota ones do and yes these had the same red merc marine grease on em as well as CRC spray occasionally etc ....Just make sure they freeze in the best height position coz once they do you wont be shifting them again.

For what they cost ALL of the brands are a huge ripoff...IMHO.

They don't stand up to the work we would like to do with them - they are built to "chinese toy factory" standards IMHO. If you wan't to use them once or twice a year for a few years & thow em away and buy another - then I guess they might be alright, but for what they cost - they SHOULD be able to stand up to professional use and they clearly don't.

I can see a REALLY good "market" for a clever Aussie with a bit of ingenuity to make "all Australian" trolling motors that WORK and LAST. It can't be that fricken hard after all mankind send men to the moon and probes to mars...an electric motor in water is so hard?

Anyone got a spare mixmaster motor handy?.....a inverter, some good epoxy and alloy and away you go! (Electrofishing - here we come!) :p :D

If manufacturers won't give us what we need - then get someone local to make one....why not hydralically driven from your outboards electric tilt trim pump via a two way tap??

Bob's machine shop in Florida has 12v elecrically driven hydraulic pump units for raising and lowering his transom outboard motor jackplates - buy one a them as a spare part - get a hydraulic motor for the bottom end - hook together with a variable speed switch & voila, a hydralically driven trolling motor!!!

Make the bloody things outta 316 stainless....including the prop!!!, make the shaft out of stainless spring steel (is there such an alloy?).

I just reckon build one bloody one that works even if it costs a fraction more than the ludicrous prices for this imported junk.

Surely we got someone in breamers whos a hydraulics pumps person?

Thats my $2.02 c worth... :rolleyes:

Cheers!

[Stevo]

I have been using a MG freshwater cable steer for 8mths now.

No signs of rust or corrosion.

It has an anode fitted.

Regarding the bearing rusting? Well its stainless steel i have made sure of this as i put a magnet to it, and it did not stick as proper stainless steel should not.

It gets a good grease every couple of months which takes a few minutes to do.

The motor gets a good wash after every session and every session has been in saltwater. In the motors head there is no circuitry, there is a brass gear and the power cables, a good spray of Inox looks after that. Underneath the pedal you can see the connections/switches etc, i have spreayed these with Inox Lanox and no corrosion has started what so ever.

I fished in 2 days torrential rain in the Sydney comp and the motor held up fine so all is waterproof.

For $700 i think they are a top motor, and cant be beaten for the price. Although i do sit down to use my motor i am just used to it, but i think after practise you can use them standing up like has been mentioned, i have seen the Bass Pro's doing it with 2 foot of chop in some of their lakes.

And Bassifiers question why I think cable steer is better than MK, (servo steer) is look at what can go wrong? There is not much to go wrong with cable steer except a switch thats the rest is mechanical. When i was going to buy an electric there were to many posts of MK going back because they would either not turn properly or spin in circles etc, these were new motors and for $2000 i would expect alot more, i hope they have rectified this as i dont think it was with all of them.

Thats my 2 cents good luck making a choice:D

Stevo

[Bassifier]

Steve, there are problems with the Motorguides cable steering, maybe not yet as frequently reported, but there are problems.
That aside, what benefit really does the extra responsiveness in cable MG's have over servo Minns?
I make the analogy of the comedy sketch in which a man fails to get out of the steamrollers path quick enough!
Interesting to note that there are servo MG's also.

[Scott T]

So What MK"s may be better. When your a single income earner ,with a Wife and kid, and you just want to catch a few bream ,the price of a MG is well justified.
Do you think the bream care what"s hang"n off the front of your boat ?
Like anything you own ,it should be well maintained

[Stevo]

Bassifier,

I know there will always be problems with anything electronic in a marine environment i am not doubting that at all. I just personally like the cable steer wether it be MG or MK, their both great motors, i like simplicity, i use my electric 99% of the time and i feel the less electronic servos and circuit boards in them the less chance you have of a problem arising thats all.

I'm not knocking Minn Kota's im just giving my personal opinion on the matter from what ive seen.

Re the speed thing, theres nothing you cant do with a MK that you can with a MG (besides auto pilot feature), except when your maybe fishing racks etc you might come away with a few less scratches :D

Stevo:)

Well here is something to think about, in the WA BREAM Tournaments this year the top 14 boaters used Kotas, the first motor guide came in 15th place as far as boaters go. That MG was also beaten by 12 non-boaters and 9 boaters who fished the whole year without electrics.

So the first placed motor guide was beaten by 35 anglers, 75% of which were non-boaters or had no electric at all.

I'm sure of you went through the QLD, NSW & VIC results you'd find the same pattern.

At the end of the day it's about putting fish in the boat and a Kota does it better than any other electric out there.

[Stevo]

and here i was thinking that ABT tournament where won by the knowledge of the fisherman, and knowing what plastics, lines, leaders and lures to use.

Lucky i dont fish abt tournaments, i would have no chance with a MG.....
:rolleyes:

Stevo

Stevo you fool! Hahahahhahaha

Why do you think Ferrari kicks arse in F1's or HRT in V8's, you need the best driver (or angler) combined with the best gear for a winning combination.....

[seqfisho]

You nailed it in one IRA, it's all about the amount of dollars you spend :p thats why the privateer drivers never do any good in F1 and the V8's, although there was a few unknowns that were in the same boat once Brock, Johnson, Bargwhana? etc, but what about the guys with talent and skill like Lownes? and anyway I thought the Fords were the ones to beat at present?

I really doubt that the brand of electric motor has anything to do with comp results, you sort of made that clear with your statement

"That MG was also beaten by 12 non-boaters and 9 boaters who fished the whole year without electrics.

So the first placed motor guide was beaten by 35 anglers, 75% of which were non-boaters or had no electric at all."

Ira, Im glad that you mentioned that you were sponsered by MK, cause if you wernt then Id reckon you need to hit em up for something.

"At the end of the day it's about putting fish in the boat and a Kota does it better than any other electric out there."


Regards Glen[COLOR=red][COLOR=red]

[Craig_S]

Yeah, I'd agree thats probably not entirely fair comment Ira. You can make the stats mean anything.

For instance, 3 of 4 regular season events last year were won by people not using any form of electric. Accordingly you are 3 times more likely to have ultimate competition success if you leave your MK/MG at home.:)

The main factor will always be the skill of the individual angler.

True Craig, cept you forgot that Kurt Blanksby won Mandurah as a non-boater, guess what electric was on the front of both of the boats he fished out of? Kota baby.

Albany was won by Peter without an electric, Walpole was won by Madfish drifting flats without an electric, Perth was won with a Kota and so was the Invitational, so really Kota's won 3 out of 5 rounds and 100% of the rounds won by electrics. Touche........

:D

Hi Glen, as the owner of a Minn Kota auto pilot, I will through my two bobs worth in. My MK is now five years old and from day one it's been nothing but trouble, first the auto pilot stuffed up (it's no longer a auto pilot lol) it then started chewing out the rubber mounting blocks, the plastic covers where they bolt to the motor ripped out, the platic covering the electics split and broke and so on and so on.

I don't know what the other brand is like but one things for sure I would never have a MK auto pilot again. As for the after sales service provided by BLA, (in this state anyway) it's a joke.

Cheers Samurai

[Craig_S]

I love stats, we could go forever, I've even got comp stats that indicate I've got a 10" schlonger.:D

Its not what you've got, its how you use it.

out of curiosity:-

A) which model minn kota do you have on your boat,

B) how have you personally found it as far as standing up to constant outdoor marine use?

Just curious in case I go looking at one a these fancy bow mounts myself...which I'm constantly tempted to do.

Cheers!

[seqfisho]

Ira,

Just a quick thought while you are sorting through the ABT stats, what is the percentage of MK powered boats to that of MG powered boats and how many of those MKs have been purchased since the MGs became available on the local market.

Im sure that that would be some interesting figures to look at.

Ive never been one to follow the flock so be it Quintrex, Hummingbird, Minn Kota , Shimano or Yamaha, their products will only grace my boat on the products merit.

Some people will call it anti estahblishment syndrome, for the reasons of price compared to performance, I think it will be a MG that will be riding on the bow of my AllyCraft.

Dont get me wrong, if a item is good enough in all of the criteria that I expect it to be then I will use it no matter what, its the reason why Im running a Yammy 4stk and not a different model and the same reason why I'll be buying a Squidgy Spin stick and a MG bowmount (if the shaft length is ok) and probably why I keep using my original Mr Twisters instead of stocking up on Sliders (sorry Warren, although that will have to change soon, running out) I just hate following trends for the sake of being seen as another one of the flock.


Regards Glen.

[Bassifier]

Ha ha! yet here you are on this website:D :eek: :D

[Craig_S]

Glen, after a long and twisted thread I'm going to attempt to summarise:

1. The MG is less expensive

2. The MG can be used in salt, and anecdotal evidence suggests there is no damage, but it is not warranted for this type of use.

3. The MG is a usable electric trolling motor.

4. The MK may have other functional benefits to justify spending more.

Good luck picking:)

[seqfisho]

Used for information purposes only:p

Ok, I'll admit it, Im just bloody addicted:D :D :D

Regards Glen.

[Ravin]

Glen after reading this amusing thread & being a happy Motorguide user myself the best advice I can give you is move here to SE Queensland mate. It has advantages I tell ya :D

1. Our snags & rock bars are all fitted with cushions so MG legs don't bend

2. The weather is beautiful one day perfect the next so conditions are always so perfect you don't have to sit down to drive a Motorguide

3. The water is less salty so our motors don't corrode

3. Last but most importantly the fish are so easy to catch that even us Motorguide users can go out & catch bream too.

I knew I did the right thing moving up here.:D :D Its Motorguide heaven.

[Fishaholic]

Ira, I once heard that statistics to a discussion are often like a lamp post to a drunk - more for leaning on than for illumination...

You could only use those stats with any validity if everything else was equal, i.e. same boat, same tackle, same everything, and then the boaters swapped from one to the other during the sessions, the idea is to eliminate as many variables as possible.

I'll bet that if you went over the ABT results again and looked at the ratio of grams of fish caught to total $ spent on buying the electric then the MG would be out in front.... What was the most commonly used tow veichle by the winning competitors? I want to upgrade the Lancruiser so as to win an ABT :D

Cheers,
Gab.

[tricky]

all i can add to this is" what a crock of DohDohDohDoh and chest beating" this has been. the poor bugger only wanted a bit of info on the motors use in salt, not to hear about "bullDohDohDohDoh statistics" that really mean nothing in the big picture. just buy the best you can afford, get out there, and have some fun.

cheers tricky

[Nath_18]

Originally posted by tricky
all i can add to this is" what a crock of DohDohDohDoh and chest beating" this has been. the poor bugger only wanted a bit of info on the motors use in salt, not to hear about "bullDohDohDohDoh statistics" that really mean nothing in the big picture. just buy the best you can afford, get out there, and have some fun.

cheers tricky

Tricky got it in one :D :D :D

Sorry for digging up such a controversial thread from the basement but iv been doing a fair bit of research into which electric motor would be better for me (Minn kota V motor guide) and I would like to see how much peoples views have changed since the thread slipped away way back in 2003 :D

cheers, Nathan

P.S I'v narrowed my search down to Minn Kota and will be picking one up tomorrow but would still love to hear everyones thoughts about the topic.

[Ranger 175C]

Hello

As a user of both brands of motor for the last 15years I would say it is an even split here in the USA. I ordered my boat with a Minn Kota Maxxum 80lbs freshwater cable steer. It worked very well and I was happy with it. I had it cook last year. It was a total failure and expensive to reapir. I purchased a MG great white 82lbs cable steer motor. This is a made for saltwater motor. The shaft is quite strong. If you have a bow mounted sonar that should help you avoid the collision you are all worried about. The lack of friction adjustment on the MG is a minor problem for me. I used the MG all last year and it was very good. I am 50/50 on which one I like better. If Minn kota would come out with a saltwater cable steered white motor I would think about switching back but for right now the MG is ok. One thing about the composite shaft, on heavier boats the shaft will flex more then the stainless shaft on the MG. This causes a loss in foward power that I have experienced first hand.
Over here in the saltwater comps hand control motors are more popular. In the Espn redfish cup Motorguide wins, in the Ranger Cup in-shore tournaments Minn Kota is the number one choice. I think it really is like the Shimano vs Daiwa debate.
Just my Humble opinion,
Brian Brennan/Ranger 175C

[WOODY666]

Good post Brian,
I also have had the pleasure of a Minn Kota and now have the 82lb SW Motorguide .
Bothunits are good for different reasons as you state .
The only thing after having an auto pilot and now going to cable steer in the motorguide , cable is the way to go IMO.


Woody

[Shauno]

Hey all,

I have just recently purchased the fw54lb motor guide, I cannot comment on whether it will stand the test of time. However like most things, an items life span is often relative to the way in which they are cared for.

Many may realise that the original post was comparing an ap55rt to the fw54bm motor guide, the minn kota may be superior in many ways to the motor guide. but sometimes it's all about cost.

Every single ap minn that has come into S.A (that i'm aware of) has at some stage or another been returned, problems with electrics being the main culprit.

you are very unlikely to see such problems with a cable steer unit of either brand.

As for some of the comments on this thread, Ira how on earth can you dribble such nonsense as

when it comes to putting fish in the boat, nothing does it like a autopilot

FAIR DINKEM?????

As for the comments about the HSV (rt55ap) versus the Pulsar (fw54bm) ha ha ha

I think of it more like this, in 2001 the nissan 200sx won wheels sports car of the year.

"How can this be everyone said, the porsche 911, out powered, out bracked, out looked, overall totally outperformed the budget new nissan"

Well they said it all comes down to the overall package (bang for your buck).

Holden out sell ford 3-1 in australia, but the falocn has been wheels sedan of the year 2 in a row!!!!! how can this be..... but holdens are better???? arn't they!!!!!

As for the pro's and what they use, hey I've never met any of these guys, but from looking through what media i have available, not only do motor guide stack up well, they out number kota's in many regards.
lets take the new ABT tournament guide for example, there are 29 seperate boats pictured in that mag not counting any double ups.

from what i can be seen in close ups

6 use the beloved AP's

8 use freshwater minn kotas
(says heaps for the salt water theory)

9 use the great white motor guides

and

4 use the same motor as i do

54lb freshwater motor guide.

admittedly the book contains approx 50% bass fishing content, so okay take away all the freshwater models.

motor guide still outnumber on this occasion.

what next, "but the AFC were sponsered by motorguide"! sure, good, let them have there share of advertising market space. even pros such as Chris Metcalfe are using motor guide on there own boats in the mag.

What it comes down to is, how much do you have to spend and how big is your boat?

low dollars, small to mid boat = fw54bm (motorguide)

more money, small to mid boat= rt55ap (minn kota)

don't care about money and have a big boat to push = great white 82 pd motor guide....bigger thrust minn kota (both 24v)

Don't let sompanies like BLA pull the wool over your eyes just because they have marketed there product better, it will take a while for mercury marine to take on market share, but it will happen, it has been proven in the states etc.

Cheers guys.............

GIVE IT UP FOR SHAUNO......WOOOOW. but on a serious note, i am tossing up between MG and MK for my stacer, and after hearning about the millions of problems that the MK people have with there steering...etc i am not sure wether to go for. At aussie yesty a guy brought in a 55lb riptide that was being faulty.

[time4bream]

What an interesting thread!!! Heres my two bobs worth.When I embarked on this sport having three kids, a veryyy understanding wife and a budget I looked at all options that have been discussed and settled for the motorguide 55 bowmount fresh mainly for the price difference.

I maintain it meticulously by flushing with fresh water after use including removal of the prop. When it is dry I spray Lanoguard on all surfaces. One can will last a year. The bearing is not corroded at all and all surfaces are in perfect nick. In inclement weather I protect the foot control from direct spray etc.

I have had it for two years and it has done two Kimberley trips and countless trips here. One of the best features being cable guide is the responsiveness and this feature is handy for bigger fish to help extraction for the first two metres from snags and banks( especially up north where bigger fish are a possibilty. I am very careful and touch wood have had no shaft impact problems. 90% of travel time is on 1 & 2 settings which is slow. All in all very happy but I dont deny that the MK has some excellent features.

[Dannyboy]

sorry guys but i had to just put in my two cents worth

are we really comparing apples with apples here?
sounds like we are comparing a saltwater model MK with a freshwater MG. Minnkota do various freshwater models too that do not have autopilot which more compares to the Motorguide which is mentioned. So I would check the prices out on those models b4 we get to carried away. You might just be suprised just how much the price difference will be when we really start comparing similar products.

[Dave W]

Just some more fuel for the fire :D

I just sold my old RT55AP and got the new model (was going to go 65lbs 24V but changed my mind).

The new RT55AP's turn 40% faster than the old ones, so much faster that I can honestly say I don't miss the difference between this and cable - I have used both.

My 'dream' that I posted earlier is almost a reality :)