DIY Question...

[Herds]

For all you budding DIY'ers out there (and maybe a few professionals) - here's a question...

I know that there are many ways to do it so fire them at me...

When doing a floor, rod locker, storage area, casting platform etc...what do you use exactly and how effective is it (what would you change)!

For example:- Marine ply then anchorweld glue then carpet....or....Structural ply then marine estapol then Anchor weld then carpet???

Whats worked...what hasn't...what keeps cost down but is still a mickey mouse job! Or don't you keep cost down:D

cheers
Andrew

[Mim]

Hi Andrew,

If you have a look at the link, JP has posted the recipe we used to do our floors, casting deck, etc.

Hope it helps

http://www.breammaster.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=643

There are a few other posts in the hulls section that tell you what people have done.

HAve fun and if you have any questions or need any help give JP a pm

Cheers

Mim

[Herds]

Cheers Mim...I already read that thread :D ...it was part of the fuel that inpired me to have a crack...being a carpenter and all it shouldn't be to hard - just have to learn about special marine considerations!

What would you do differently if you did it all over again? JP, maybe you could answer that too?

andrew

[Chris_Macca]

Structural ply then marine estapol then Anchor weld then carpet.

[Mim]

Hi Chris,

Is there any reason you use the marine estapol?

I was told that the only difference between marine and standard estapol, apart from the price, is that marine has a uv filter in it.

None of the ply in the decks sees sunlight it is put on purely to stop water damage. We did about 4 coats and the boat has seen a hell of a lot of water in the past 8 months and the timber is as good as new

Cheers

Mim

[Bear]

Herds,
One thing to be very careful of is how you strengthen the hull. I would NOT be looking at a floating deck as the stresses is can put back against the hull.

I would be looking at installing an Ali frame and then fixing the deck to it. This negates the flexing as well, which again can cause hull cracking.

If you're interested, I have a few articles in the DohDohDoh mag on decks, livewells etc.

Live wells was last month and decks in July. Just a few dos and don'ts to start with and then we'll be doing one from scratch. I'd be happy to answer any questions if you drop me a PM or e-mail bear@fishingwa.com

[jimi]

I'll agree with bear on the floating floor thing. Look underneath the floor on any boat that comes with a factory fitted floor (from a reputable brand) and you will see a welded aluminium framework to support the floor.

The weight of a person is a point load acting on the boat floor. If there is no support underneath the floor, the load will be entirely supported around the edges on the chines or support braces that run across the floor. This is a very small area that is also where major welds meet and thus would not be the strongest part of the boat.

With welded alloy framework underneath, the load will be spread properly to several braces and the keel of the boat, and avoid localising the stress along welds which leads to cracking.

Mim, if you want to strenghthen the floor, try putting some wood down the centre so that some of the weight is supported along the keel of the boat. This is the strongest part of the boat. For proof, have a look at an alloy boat on a trailer - most of the weight is taken by the keel rollers.

Cheers

James.

[Mim]

Mim, if you want to strenghthen the floor, try putting some wood down the centre
We have not had a problem. The floor is reinforced to sit on the cross beams, I think thats what they are called. I am sure JP will put in a post and correct me if I am wrong when he gets home from work

Cheers

Mim

[Mim]

Hi Guys

well I thought a lot about load distribution in the boat and as such did not create a fully floating floor. It may look like I did but I will explain. If you want to spend the money then get the framework welded in and bolt the structural ply to it. This will keep the construction simple. As Mim said, the ply never sees the light of day and normal estapol is half the price of marine varnish. I have had a lot of water in the boat on many occasions, ask Kurt about our Sunday in the rough water at Walpole when the duck was full of water to the floor and we spent 15mins in the shallows bilging it out, it was warmer standing in the water :rolleyes:

The floor spreads the load across the aluminium brackets on the rear of the front thawrt seat (the blue bits) and the hull supports number 1,3 & 4 (ignore the support under the thawrt seat)

[Mim]

oops logged in as Mim... story continues shortly

JP :D

[madsurfe]

in this pic you'll see that the cross beams are bevelled at each end and sit exactly inside the hull supports no's 1,3 & 4 , not right at each end of the support but a 1/4 of the way in for each one.
The floor does not make contact with the side of the hull :rolleyes: (what is the proper name for the sides... I dunno)
or the seam that joins the bottom to the sides. The grain of the ply is laid along the length of the floor, this reduces flexing

[peter bear]

every quintrex ,stacer & stessl and all the other mass produced tinnie use mostly imported hardwood ply no estapol only glue and carpet than ship them out the door saves money.

if you are going to estapol or any type of painting on the ply b4 you carpet it leave the under side free ,because if you totally cover it up and water gets in it will rot from the inside out,so the space you dont paint will let it dry out.
peter.:)

[madsurfe]

ok now the seat support is bolted to the floor on the 1st support and to the thawrt seat with the aluminium brackets (hey this floor is going no where). The seat and storage area have additional reinforcing and I reckon' even Bear could sit in my seat and it wouldn't flex. I know that I can jump up and down on it.

[madsurfe]

now the livewells are contained within a compartment that spreads the load on the floor either side of the support and doesn't move because it is located on the removable thawrt seat brackets that are welded to the hull. The livewells are fiberglassed and act as a stressed members allowing us to stand on the livewell compartment. They share the load and the livewells do not spread any load past the end of the support on the floor, confused yet?

[madsurfe]

:D

[madsurfe]

detailed explanation it is but may clarify some questions. The front and rear decks are 50/50 supported by the original thawrt seats and aluminium brackets/stainless hinges. Do you really want to know how I built the battery compartment?

I'll leave that one for ron, but hey the battery don't go nowhere.
All this thought and action took weeks of burning the midnight oil and planning. It was ongoing and I used my previous experiences of breaking motorcycle frames, windsurfers and jetskis .... good luck!

[Herds]

Thanks all...JP & Mim I reckon its come up a treat! Great job!Thanks for the info it is helpful...JP is there anything that you'd do differently if you did it over again?

cheers
Andrew

[madsurfe]

oh forgot about that one. um do differently! lets see... nuthin, I only took this route to save money as I couldn't afford a new hull or stacks of $ for welding. ideally I would like the livewells at the front or rear but that can't be done realistically without welded ally framework. I have achieved good weight distribution and load bearing. The hull does get a good flooging and isn't cracking up, so if it's not broke don't try to fix it


Peter

you know what you said about the estapol and leaving some bare timber, it makes sense but I never really got any hard evidence about it so I estapol'd the timber with 3 coats before any carpet went on. The structural ply is not exactly a hardwood so I figured that I would do a yearly inspection and recoat if needed. I get the whole lot out in 30mins. Ok so far and no warpage

[matchangler]

hey herds sounds like u have brought yourself a boat man, is that right wat sort have u got

Being a wood worker myself - I too, went the route of building stuff for the boat (console, gear locker, flotation thwart seat etc) from formply.

I think now - having built the hull from welded plate alloy, and the other stuff from timber - that next time - I'd go all alloy.

It really isn't that hard to weld alloy, I think folks tend to make it out to sound harder than it really is.

I must stress I'm not talking here about the thin soft pressed alloys of stretchformed hulls which need specialised TIG weldiing - this is a real trade skill that only acomplished alloy welders can achieve.

On the other hand MIG welding thicker (3mm) plate alloy however is something that a handyman CAN achieve assuming of course he has access to a mig welder, angle grinder, stainless steel rotary wire brush, and a jig saw to cut out your panels and a little knowlwedge / practice of basic principals.

The advantage of course is weight saving and waterlogging not being an issue (also not fire prone).

I'm actually at the point of considering ripping out my console and safety gear locker, and replacing them with alloy, just to save weight for trailering, recovery, speed, fuel consumption etc.

I guess a lot of folks find timber 'easier' (me included) but I think in some cases it would "pay" in various ways to go the extra mile and use alloy.

Consider that - breamers who fish comps need a livewell - with what, a min 90 litres? Thats 90 Kilos extra weight. If the ply in all these casting decks, livewells, battery boxes, and so on adds up to another 90 kilos - theres two passengers weight carrying capacity you lose from your boat straight away.

IF the boat was only rated for 3 people to start with, suddenly - your down to just the driver! :eek:

I guess it's not hard to see why the rules are already starting to look at minimum lengths for bream comp boats in order to keep the safety aspects of not "overloading" vessels once all the required livewells, passengers, trolling batterys, starting battery, safety gear, trolling motor, fuel and so on comes into play.

Then consider say larger waters like BIG dams in the east where MORE than one tote tank of fuel is carried - it's not hard to see how quickly the weight adds up.

In my own case - I know that the high density fire retardent foam underfloor adds another 80 kilos straight away!

Sooner or later- weight beconmes your "enemy" in these small vessels with all the stuff the sport requires that you carry.

Anything that can "save" weight is a bonus.

My tub started it's life with a 25 Hp mariner, but eventually as the various required items were added, weight got to a point where any sort of headwind or strong current would knock me off plane with only 1 passenger!

Thats when 50 horses were added (yet more weight!).

At some point weight becomes an issue from propulsion and bouyancy/ safety point of view. Anything you can do to keep weight down, in terms of rigging your boats will be of benefit in the end in my experience.

Hope this is of some help.

As you can see from the photo, with the bow hard on the sand, and my fat butt down the back along with two trolling baterys and a starting batery a transom troller and 50 horses of Merc 4 banger, as well as 25 litres of fuel and a spare 10 litres as well - theres NOT a whole lot of boutyancy left.

It sits a LOT better with someone up front and the bow floating but all the same it does demonstrate a vessel where weight is already becomming a serious issue.

An additional 90 litres of livewell water would be asking too much I think!

It's either lose the console weight or go on a diet! :rolleyes:

Cheers!

[madsurfe]

I'll agree with your comments on weight savings. I can still get my dinghy on the plane travelling at good speed with a 15hp. Just me flying solo but the moment I fill the livewells and add another fisher or two I plane but top speed is stuffed. So I added the 30hp. Now it is no longer a problem. Now I must say geez... how much gear have you got in that boat, bloody nora! no wonder you need the extra grunt. My normal load includes 1 battery, the Minn Kota, 2 fishers and tackle plus all safety equipment lights/flares/jackets/anchor/bilge pump/ 25 litres of fuel

How much gear / weight?

Good question.

I figure too much already, but here’s a rough tally.

Kilos
300 - Bare Hull
110 - Wet OB
35 - Fuel
45 - 3 Batt’s
25 - Trolling Motor
80 - Flotation Foam
20 - Thwart seat
20 - Console
20 - Gear Locker
5 - Water Separator Filter
10 - Tool kit
2 - First Aid Kit
20 - Safety gear, jackets, flares, epirb, radio, sat phone, Anchors & Rope, OB Manual.
20 - tackle bag & rods
10 - Esky
5 - GPS, Sounder, Compass, Bilge pumps Man & elec

727 - Sub total

+ 385 Passengers

~ 1112 Kg's TOTAL all up at a rough guess (give or take 100 kilos!!)

With 50 horses thru a Bigfoot gearbox twisting a Merc Vengeance 17 inch pitch prop she boogies about 27 knots GPS at WOT.
Another 100 litres in a livewell would be asking a lot I think...But I MAY still do it!!

Cheers!

[Herds]

Nah...no boat as yet - still a few years off mate;) . I'm helping a mate out...I'm the hired help!