Planning for 2009

[Steve Morgan]

Breamers,

Here's a little project for the WA ABT Tournament guys .... see if you can reach a consensus about what would be the best format for 2 x ABT Qualifiers there in 2009 .... I mean locations and time of the year. They will be draw events, the same as the rest of the country.

Have your input now before we start planning the 2009 calendar!

Cheers,

SM

[Brad Y]

For sheer numbers steve, perth is a big one. Seems like most comps held in june when it used to be really good from the rains have either been held when the rains arent quite there. The fishing is hard and 5 fish for under 2kg is common. I would suggest later in july or august when it has cranked up and the big fish are aggro. I do believe that a 3.5kg bag could be possible and thats a cracker for perth.

Also I will be biased and say the blackwood as the fishing in november and december is great too, as is feb to may. But alot of people dont like it and wont go there. I guess it leaves walpole and albany. I think its a dead heat between the two, maybe favouring albany. Walpole just isnt as good as it used to be. You would have to look at the tides though and try to get it on a high tide for fishing the flats. I would say that october november or even february march might be a good time.

Yatesy

[knobby]

I have to back brad up on the blackwood call, although squeeze january in aswell. The place just produces good fish consistently through those months. I could even envisage 4-5 kg bags. Then add walpole or albany and a 3rd in perth. Oh yeah try to avoid the full moon in the blackwood on said months, can have low water all morning.

[macca85]

I think that like brad said perth would be a good one just for the sheer numbers. The swan would bring the biggest field in a WA comp IMO, and the weight of bags wouldnt be much different to what walpole or albany offered this year. Although the whole experience of the down south trips are half of the fun as well. any chance of just adding perth in as a third? would produce more ppl and entry fees.

[Steve Morgan]

Guys,

Remember that rules will be the same as the qualifiers for the rest of the country.

There will be 2 x qualifiers max. Queensland only has two and they average over 50 boats per event.

Also, Qualifier season runs from Feb to September.

Cheers,

SM

[Brad Y]

Szarn the only problem with that is you know down right well people have never and probably wont commit to the comps that early. Its sad that its the way it goes but for some reason its how they do it. Some people dont know until the week before if they can make it.

I agree looking only on friday, but who will enforce the no rods rule? ABT should run thier own rules as they always have, people should try to commit earlier if possible, and we need to have a better range of venues, not just two predominantly flats fishing locations. Perth is always going to get better numbers than anywhere else, then walpole and albany, blackwood then mandurah. Man made structure or big snags in one location then flats and dropoffs in the other. Seems like a fair compromise

Definitely perth in july/august. Walpole, Albany or Blackwood in march.

[Dowelly]

i think a different location then the ones said.
i know it will probably never happen or be over looked strait up, but pallinup or bremer is very capable of holding a ABT imo.
with pretty much an average size of 30cm fork, bags would look very nice.
even i get sick of fishing Albany and Walpole, a different location that hasnt had a hammering with lures could be a more enjoyable option, would see alot more full bags aswell.
i think this could get more numbers as people are willing to give a new location a go. :cool:

:eek:

[Brad Y]

I agree, a bit earlier entry wont hurt. I dont think pal or bremer is viable dowelly, maybe for you guys but its seven hours towing a boat from here. Not sure what it is for perth but not far off that. Plus if the pal fired in only a few spots like it did for us, try getting 20-30 boats in there. Prop carnage, gelcoat chips... nope not for me, but lots of people its something to really think about. Plus what about people launching there with a commodore or falcon, can be done but it will be slow as. Definietly a good idea for a weekend down there but not for an ABT qualifer. I still think walpole is nothing like it used to be. Its good but not as good. Swan for sheer numbers of entries should be locked in. Its a great fishery if you prefish and work out where to go and what to use. We have seen walpole sized bags pulled from the swan before so why not?

[Bear]

As long as they are the number of Classics on the Swan as it stands I can't see the point of having yet another event there.

Personally, to get numbers you'd have to have the Pole. From there we can rotate between Albany, Augusta and Mandurah (for those who feel we need one close to Perth).

Feb at the Blackwood is pretty good and the Pole in Sep can be interesting, but that can always be brought back to April.

Same wth Mandurah, angry Feb fish and then the Pole.

Our issue, trust me we've been there many times, is getting places that can hold 30-40 plus boats. Not that easy in WA when you really want places close to accommodation, facilities etc.

[Bear]

Seems we had this discussion before around Mega-Bucks :D

As much as the Pole does allow for a lot of fish it does still challenge people in it's own way. In the end it's a magnet to anglers that can't be overlooked moving forward.

[deacon]

I would love to see one in the Blackwood in summer and one in the Murray in early winter or spring.

Deacon

[Dave Press]

What about Murchison, Kalbarri?

It's quite a big system, has bream from the mouth to well up and seriously good by catch (estuary cod, jacks, mulloway, big tailor, etc).

If we won't try that, then I'd go with Perth and Blackwood for 2009.

Dave

[Bear]

You're going to get that in any of the more populated places Szarn. How many times have we had issues on the Swan and Murray? Even the Frankland had it's twits.

[Brad Y]

Even though i wasnt there, i thought there was a bit of a rukkas made when the second comp was announced for a place other than perth. Yes even though there are classics on, two day events are totally different, fishing can be hot one day and hard the next. I know people might think of it as overdone, but its going to draw the most boats. If you want the comps to go on, you need boats. Nothing wrong with having one at walpole or albany, but i have heard alot of people bad mouthing walpole in the last year or so. Yes its still easy to get fish, but come on we have had a comp with walpole every year and the place gets flogged. Are people too scared not to fish it? Lets test the angling skill of people a bit more and try other places, I dont mind if its mandurah, perth, albany or the wood.

Walpole is overrated IMO, dont get me wrong i will fish it, but its overrated. Lets test people a bit. The swan continually tests people in comps, especially over two days....(wiping away a tear.....)

[Yardi]

My Two Cents worth.
Szan after fishing Walpole prior to the Albany round and thinking a little outside the square (going to the fish as you stated). It really opened up my eyes on what great bags you can pull from there. I believe alot of people myself included, tend to fish in the same way and the same spots at the Pole.
IMO I dont think you can overlook it for a comp, as long as the tides etc are taken into consideration, to allow for fishing both upstream and on the flats.
The Blackwood went from being my most hated location, to now my favourite, the place has some real big angry fish and trying to bullock some of those bigger fish from the snags, can really test an angler. Isnt that what its all about (Tournie fishing) testing an anglers skills and seeing at the end of the weekend who came out on top? No one said it was meant to be easy.
Albany was a great weekend, but for me its
1 at the Pole and 1 at the Blackwood
Cheers
Yardi

[paul r]

i would like to see the blackwood ,murry,and walpole,at the right times of the year,or when the majority thinks the best time would be

paul

[Richo]

There are only three systems with the size to cater for the numbers we want. (Thats leaving Perth out of it of course as I think it has enough pressure, but in saying that one every few years would be ok), the three are Albany (providing the ski area is left in and the marina as well), the Blackwood (providing they leave the ski area in) and of course Walpole. These three systems need to be rotated through with each fished twice over three years, obviously one drops from this year and the Blackwood comes in, and I reckon an early one at the Blackwood followed by Albany or Walpole a couple of months later. But they can cater for 30 - 40 teams, I wouldnt want to fish more than that (actually I reckon max 40 boats in any of our systems including Perth as they are just not as big as over East)

As for Friday fishing well it needs to stay in to entice people to want to travel here from over East, exactly the same as we'd expect if we were travelling East ourselves. The day should be used to look around etc not flog places to death and it is on each persons conscience as to how they fish it.

Id say Blackwood Feb/Mar and Albany or Walpole for Apr/May.

No other system could really be considered except Perth, I dont think Mandurah should really be an option either.

Cheers

[J&KMiddleton]

IMO
1) Blackwood

2) Perth

But would be happy with any system if they had a bit of a gap say 3 months min between comp to make it easier to get the funds to prefish both.

[DAWS]

I might be biased when saying the Blackwood but i have to agree with Richo.
The Blackwood in Febuary and Albany,Walepole in May.
Perth would draw alot of boats but already has preasure from all the other comps.

Daws

[Brad Y]

IMO
1) Blackwood

2) Perth

But would be happy with any system if they had a bit of a gap say 3 months min between comp to make it easier to get the funds to prefish both.

Good idea on the time gap mate.

[Dan Walter]

Walpole i feel should be a goer such a special place, would be nice to have an event in Perth for the sheer fact of the people it would attract, the publicity and also to intice the sad sacks that only fish the classics im sure we would get 40 boats but its really about the fishing right? Walpole and Albany/Blackwood for me what better places to show off to the rest of the country our fish and our beautiful state (even though im a queenslander).

[Brad Y]

I think people are forgetting just how good the swan can fish in winter. Its produces bags as good as albany, blackwood and walpole. The idea is fish it in its prime time.

[Bear]

I don't think anyone has forgotten Brad, it's just with 4-5 other comps in the Swan why have another one?

[Brad Y]

like i said mate two day comps are a totally different kettle of fish. The swan is so much more challenging and satisfying to me. No fun sitting on a dropoff catching 40 fish a day when you can apply yourself and think about it a bit more and get a good bag from man made structure. I guess im just weird.

[Bear]

I personally think we are yet to crack some of the places like the Mandurah canals and so on. I also don't see anything easy about the Blackwood. I suppose, like yourself with the Wood, I'm just sick of gishing the Swan\Canning. To have the Classics and then an AOY just seems a waste.

[Dave W]

I'm probably one of the few East Coasters who've fished all the waterways mentioned.

IMHO the biggest incentive for a travelling angler is two in two weekends, similar to what happened in Vic this year. Plenty of people made the events a week long holiday fishing tons of areas between the arenas and had a ball.

This is almost exactly what I did on my last trip west. Two events with a week exploring inbetween. There's plenty of people over here who've heard me rave about the experience :D

Having said all that, the venues that create the most interest from over here are definitely Walpole with it's fairly unique flats arena (even though you don't need to fish them to do OK ;) ) and possibly the Blackwood for it's totally gnarly snag dwellers.

As 'easy' as it would be to have an event in Perth there is nothing really exiting about it, we all have similar structure in every state.

If Pallingup had decent facilities and was a bit bigger it would be very high on my list - another unique waterway with structure unknown (to me) anywhere else........... Those worm 'middens' are amazing!

I'd love to fish another WA event but to do one you're looking at at least three days off around a weekend. Makes more sense to make a trip of it, but realistically it's only the really curious or hard core east coast breamers who'll come over.

I've done what I can for West Coast Bream Tourism and seriously can't rate it highly enough to anyone who'll listen.

[Tony Ireland]

In my opinion the Blackwood is the #1 river for me as the fish there are savage and show your gear no respect at all. And I just love the place.

The second venue I like Mandurah as it is still a challenging river that I don't think has been fished to its full potential as most of us continue to fish the same real estate with the same hardware and need to try some fresh ideas.

[Hooked]

lm putting my dibs on an event at the Blackwood after last weekend...it was fishing very well even now...l lost 4x 60mm static shads to unstoppable fish (barnacles suck lol)and dragged out a few too.Day 2 was the same on plastics with good fish landed.lts a stunning and challenging water way and has my vote.The timber in that river is like no other we fish really and its depth is also an attraction too...my second would be Walpole just to get everyone amongst the fish as by moving around you will eventually find fish to get you on the board.lts a family friendly spot too.ld like to see Bremer on the cards but it seems it would be too hard for most.Thats my pick anyway.Go the Wood and Collingwood too.:D

[Doc_Hollywood]

Hey Dave,
You got in before me. Having been a travelling angler as well I totally agree with you. 2 comps one after the other and then its all done. One on the swan to keep the costs down and then the trip away down to Walpole or Albany would be my choice. The set up in Tassie was great one comp we travelled to and the other was just an early drive, and the exploring in between was well worth the trip.
I cant put any weight behind the "to many comps in the swan" arguement, simply because if you arent fishing it in a comp you are fishing it anyway. And with the comps at least fishing pressure is just affected a little because of the pre fish ban. But that doesnt stop the other hundred thousand people fishing the swan every day. And they arent putting the fish back. I am sure it would be more cost effective for ABT as well, one set of airfares instead of 2 etc etc. And as Dave said that was the set up in Vic this year, and it was the same in Tassie, and seemed to work a treat.

[Bear]

It might be fine in the ES where the guys can cross borders to fish more comps, but it leaves a big hole here and makes it harder for the Classic guys. It's also a big hit $$$ wise for a lot of guys who don't have the time or $$$ to commit to 2 comps close together.

Add to that the chance of some southern Classic comps in future years and it makes it even harder on the budget for many.

[brad mcdonald]

agree bear not everyone will be able to afford to fish every comp due to either time or money.

that said if we are fishing southern venues (albany walpole blackwood) the consecutive weekend idea makes a lot of sense. yep it means a bit over a week off work but i think most would have 4 weeks anual leave a year and with enough notice this could be allowed for. it would be a great trip, even for the local guys.

failing that i reckon jeremys right 3 months apart minimum.

my votes for venues - a rotation between albany walpole & blackwood. leaveing perth and mandurah for the classics.

i believe craig and tim are planing a 2 day final this year so who knows 2 day events may not be lost on the swan & murray after all.

JMO

[shano]

id lyk to see a comp held in perth simply because its on nearly everyones doorstep...everyone has confidence because they all have their own spots that they think will work and it will attract the biggest fields
secondly could be a river that doesnt see a lot of fishing pressure
mebe one of the southern rivers...blackwood... frankland or kalgan....on a gwd days fishing at the right time of year catching 5 bream down there shouldnt be to much of a hassle ....only if i culd say that bout walpole comp haha :rolleyes:

and for each comp try to set a date for when the moon is right and the tides suit so then the chances of a successful comp are higher and more people will leave with higher spirits for the next comp
and in early summer or late autumn would be best :D

last of all a poll on wat ur top 2 prefered rivers u would choose for a comp would be
then ud have a clealry laid out majority vote and 3rd and 4th preferences culd be seen as a 2010 outlook if the 2009 schedule isnt a hit

[PETER_S]

consecutive weekends are not for me --- self employed no work = no pay & lost opportunities.

much prefer to have the events spread out

personal prefrence

[bubba]

I have to say, I feel there is a need for a Perth comp, regardless of how many classics are held. It is the easiest to attend for the majority of anglers and has the chance of being attended by crowds. This can only be good for the sport.
Usually there is a break in the classics prior to the Mandurah Boat show one. June, July or August would be the best bet as I see it (all be it cold)

Then there needs to be a rotation of Walpole, Albany and the Blackwood. For 2009 I would like to see the Blackwood in Feb/March and Perth in July.

Feb/March is a tough time to fish the Blackwood but there are rewards for fishing outside the box.

This also cuts down travelling and accomodation costs etc for alot of people.

[DAWS]

How about having only three classics with one being down south(Swan,Murry,Walepole) on a Saturday. Easier to share costs.

Qualifiers at Perth and Blackwood over two days.

Daws

[Richo]

I have to say, I feel there is a need for a Perth comp, regardless of how many classics are held. It is the easiest to attend for the majority of anglers and has the chance of being attended by crowds. This can only be good for the sport.
Usually there is a break in the classics prior to the Mandurah Boat show one. June, July or August would be the best bet as I see it (all be it cold)

Then there needs to be a rotation of Walpole, Albany and the Blackwood. For 2009 I would like to see the Blackwood in Feb/March and Perth in July.

Feb/March is a tough time to fish the Blackwood but there are rewards for fishing outside the box.

This also cuts down travelling and accomodation costs etc for alot of people.


But you hardly fish..... ;) :D I usually miss whatever comp is in Feb regardless as Im usually in Exmouth...

I agree with rotation through the Pole, Blackwood and Albany..... with the odd 2 day comp in Perth.

The same 2 cents I think :)

[Pete D]

Im finally able to access this site :) Anyhows i would go with feb - Albany and late March / April - Walpole i agree with leaving Swan and Mandurah for the classics. A comp in Bremer would be fantastic , not sure if its possible. Dont like the idea of Blackwood coz ive never really fished it!!!:D

[Shane]

I personally would like a little time to recover between comps to get over the hit to driving so far :D $300 for the last Albany comp in diesel. Not to mention a petrol station I went by today had diesel at $1.82p/l.

Maybe we need a petrol company as a sponser ;)

[don]

For mine ,I think that we should have a perth ABT round.
Early in the year mid Feb/March and work around the Classic dates. May be have the Mandurah round of the classic earlier when it fishes better.

For our second round of the ABT to be at the Blackwood next year on the first week end in May.
No school holidays, the fishing has been better at this time of year and the tides, going by this year, are ok.

IMO Having two southern rounds that cost the average boater $400+ ,each trip down ,close together will hurt numbers.
For the cost of towing a boat to Albany or Walpole for the weekend, you can fish an eastern states comp as a non boater.

I take Dave W's point about the eastern states round but in WA we really have to cater for WA people as they make up 99% of the fields.In most eastern states comp 30-40% of the fields are made up of people willing to travel from other states.That said, we in WA have an open door with welcoming arms for guys who are willing to come from other states or countries for that matter.

Just my 2 cents worth

[Brad Y]

energised just like a viagra on friday night or just energised and wanting to go for a fish ;)

[Brad Y]

how come you sent me your msn address szarn and you never log on to msn?

[Bear]

Down boys.

(maybe I should have put that differently :D)

[Brad Y]

;););)

[Dowelly]

these days i can see people look forward to comps alot more when there is a bigger social evvironment.
the last 2 comps have been great, good mates, gettin the beers flowing and everybody not worrying about catching fish the next day.
i couldnt see this social environment in perth/mandurah.
we could look out of the square. bremma bay/welstead inlet could be an option and i would really like to see it fall through, easily account for 25 willing perthies to come across.
however in a years time i couldnt imagine the cost of fuel if its going the way it is now. so i cant see the support in it.

other then that.

Albany. march-april
perth. june july

[Bear]

I think that's the only prob with Perth comps in the past, very easy to just go home and do what you usually do. I posted before that I thinks people in each town should get together to set up a social night at each location, part of the Friday night thing again.

It would be just as easy for anglers to get together as a group and set these up for each event at say $5 a head. Something similar with the Classics as a lunch as well might help keep people around for the longer presentations.

We could even approach the Lions Clubs in each area to run them and have them earn some $$ as well. It's easy when you put your mind to it.

[Yardi]

I for one really support the idea of the comps away concept, I realise it is a financial drain on everyone, but if spread evenly apart, it gives everyone the chance to save and plan and prepare.
As Dowelly has mentioned the social aspect of the comps is a big part of it, in Albany we had a pretty big crew around for a BBQ and a few coldies on the saturday night. It was great, a very relaxed atmosphere and a lot of stories told, just about eveyone there that night was in contention to take out the comp either as boater or non boater and it took the pressure off about worrying about the next day.
Its this type of thing that will keep people coming back each time, because even if you have a shocker on the water that weekend at least you have had some fun.
I see some merit in what has been previously stated about holding back to back comps over a fortnight period, but it is only advantagous to the ABT (saving on airfares) and East Cost Anglers who can make a holiday of it and fish in between comps. I say this, as I would really like to see some East Costers over here, to help in the promotion of WA fishing, but to most WA anglers I dont believe this concept would sit well in relation to finances and justfication for being away two weekends in a row to wives and families girlfriends, work etc. (not everyone's spouses, like going away and sharing the experience).
For me its two comps spread apart alternating each year between Walpole, Albany and the Blackwood, if the location of the comps are up early in the year, you can do what Andy and I have done and thats plan mini holidays. Leave early the Thursday morning, fish a system on the way down (could even be one that you have never fished previously)lesuirely make your way to the comp destination that arvo, settle in, hit the system for a prefish on the Friday, then fish the two days in the comp. This gives you four days of fishing and goes along way to satisfying the hunger, and can offer up the opportunity of catching some cracker fish.;)
JMO
Yardi