What ever happened to...

[TheJigJedi]

I'll gladely send out some e-mails and all that, but what ever happened to those free soft plastics for sending letters to those four addresses? Is that still on the cards?

hehehe
I was waiting for someone to bring that up!

Dave

[Geoff R]

But I was hoping that some of us didn't need that sort of motivation.
Send me your name and address and I'll organise something
Geoff

[Bream Master]

They are still happening guys, but I only have six emails so far. I was waiting for a few more.

I'll post here once we cut off the offer and you can ring Geoff in the store and he'll pick some plastics out of the lucky dip box for you.

Warren.

ps. we're still waiting for some of the FOTM winners from April to PM their addresses to us so we can send out your ecogear packs.

[TheJigJedi]

oh, poor uni students need all the motivation they can get, dont you worry about that. haha. never a doubt guys.

Yeah i'll second that!
I actually had sent mine before thedeal came sbout. Good added bonus though!!!
Speaking of emails to these guys.
I've sent three to Kim Chance and not one of the replies has answered my quetions or points! They just acknowledge the email was sent and thats it!:mad:

Dave

[TheJigJedi]

roger that kingpin.

It would be interesting to see how many people actually recieved any sort of reply from their e-mails....not one here. just a 'its been recieved and read' type message, almost like he just copys and pastes the same reply to everyone.

[scott]

i think that email is just a standard automatic responce crap on email

after my letter was published in the west, i got a letter from the Greens asking me to become a member, i was pretty wtf

ahhaa

[Tony Ireland]

Originally posted by scott
i think that email is just a standard automatic responce crap on email

after my letter was published in the west, i got a letter from the Greens asking me to become a member, i was pretty wtf

ahhaa

Did they give you any idea on what they were willing to do to help the cause in return for membership and or votes at the next election. (in writing and signed is the prefered method please) :D

[TheJigJedi]

Try hanging around ECU Joondalup. I'd say atleast twice a week they've got reps down there handing out pamphlets and asking people to join...my standard responce is, "If I've said no for the past two year, I dont think im gonna change my mind today."

[Richo]

I work for EDWA and exactly that a standard response. Id be sending it back seeking a response on the points you make - and then they will no doubt make another standerd letter, but hopefully answering your questions.

cheers

Pffff.
Mate you guys aint seen annoying Greens and Hippy DohDohDohDoh till you've been to Murdoch!!!
Full of them mate!
I've found that the "I'm not 18 yet" responce works well (i am 18 but they dont know that), or better still the "F!@KIN Hell, if one more of you Liberalist hippy freaks gets up in my face again, i'm gonna..." responce is also ok!
I got a reply asking for my address from Kim Chance's office but thats it. I sent an email asking for a genuine responce which answers my Questions, but...
You guessed it, no reply!!!:mad:

Dave

[TheJigJedi]

'im not 18 yet"...haha. I've used this one once, "Sorry mate, I don't speak english." in the fullest of aussie accents. Got a good laugh followed by a "but seriously, want to join?" ARG!

You should try doing an environmental management course...its bad enough having reps wandering around the campus let along every second student in you classes being hippies....but then again there are certain 'perks' of being mates with hippies. ;) lol.

[jimi]

You guys should hang out with engineers more. Yes I know they are geeky and they smell, but when I did engineering, we never got hippies asking us to sign up for anything.

In fact they would walk a long way out of their way to avoid the engineering section of UQ. I think they were scared they might end up with a real job :p

[Craig_S]

James, must be a big difference between states. Engineers at UWA were for the most part neanderthals who threw extremely good parties... hence the old saying "siks munths agoe I cooldnt evun spel engineer now I are wun"

[jimi]

Actually, that does remind me of a certain pub crawl we had that ended in arrests after someone tried to steal a poker machine from a pub (which was bolted to the floor).....;)

hehehe
I always wanted one of those for myself!
On a more serious note.
I got a letter (yes using snail mail) and it had details of how and what the fisheries is doing about resource sharing on our rivers!
Unfortunately i dont have a scanner, so i cant post it. Did anyone else get a similar (probably identical) letter!?:confused:

Dave

[Bear]

Not one here mate.

[Mim]

Yep.

I got one by snail mail too. Was talking about the fact that they will not be banning netting and how Fisheries had reduced the number of netters in the Blackwood and also talking about resource sharing. I will scan it tomorrow if I get the chance so everyone can read it. Pretty poor really.

Cheers

Mim

Yeah tell me about it!:mad:
It was rather lame. I did like the invitation to have input in discussions about the topic though!
Oh well, it's a start i guess!

Dave

[Mim]

Black Brean populations are characterised as having a variable recruitment that results in natural variations in the abundance of stocks. research by the Department of Fisheries indicates that there is no threat to the sustainability of black bream in the Hardy Inlet. The current debate concerns resource sharing issues between the commercial, recreational, fishing tour operator, recreational net fishers and fishing competition sectors.

I am aware that the Blackwood River is highly valued by recreational fishers and tourists. This was a significant consideration in establishing the Hardy Inlet Estuary Fishery Volunteer Adjustment Scheme, which has resulted in the number of commercial operators being reduced from nine to one. As a consequence the commercial catch of black bream has declined and over the five years between 1997 to 2001 the total commercial catch of black bream was 3,979 kg, or on average less than one tonne per year. Little data is available on the recreational catch, however a survey conducted in 1974-75 indicated it was about 20 tonnes.

Western Australia's fish stocks are a community resource and it is important that the community is provided with the opportunity to have input on how these stocks are managed. For this reason the I will shortly be releasing a discussion paper that describes management options avaliable for the Hardy Inlet. The paper will be available on the Department'd website (www.wa.gov.au/westfish) and I encourage you to participate in the consultation process on this issue.

The Government is also currently considering a framework for a more integrated management system as recommended by the Integrated Fisheries Management Review Committee (Fisheries management Paper 165). I firnly believe that such an approach is essential to meet the growing pressures on our fish stocks. This framework must be based on the distribution of fish stocks, the determination of sustainable levels of fishing and the allocation of catch shares to the various groups. The new framework will enable resource allocation issues to be examined in a transparent manner and help to ensure that optimal benefits to the community are realised from the use of fish stocks.

Thank you for your interest in this matter.

Yours sincerely

Kim Chance MLC
MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE, FORRESTRY AND FISHERIES

[bubba]

I got that exact letter last nite Mim. It was exactly 30 days after I sent mine to them

Thats the one.
It's not too bad. They are a bit wayward on th facts, but at least their willing to listen and change some of the framework.
We'll have to wait and see i guess!

Dave

[Bear]

Resource Share

Resource Share

Resource Share

It seems to be the departments new catch cry.

Why the hell should we pay, as competition fishos, for a share of something we do not remove from the system. It's got me stuffed how they have come up with this.

[bubba]

Post removed

[nifty]

Hmmmmmm, I sent an email to Kim Chance a couple of weeks ago, I guess I have to wait a month for the standard reply, these pollies just give a standard answer to everything and hope people go away, that's what being a Politition is all about, say lots of words, mean nothing and then forget what you said anyway, all they have to do is hang around long enough to receive that big pension that the rest of the work force is unable to get, don't rock the Party Boat, shake a lot of hands and kiss lots of babies and then retire to a Consultants job.... I couldn't do it , I like to sleep at night with a clear concience......

[Bear]

I'm not being elitist, we have been singled out as a group on a number of occasions.

Quote:
'The current debate concerns resource sharing issues between the commercial, recreational, fishing tour operator, recreational net fishers and fishing competition sectors s.'

If we actually TOOK fish from the river I wouldn't be concerned. The point seems to totally missed. What they want is to have US fund the license payout.

[bubba]

post removed

[DAWS]

Have'nt we heare all this before. Its pretty obvious where Mr Chance got his information from. Why would he single out the competition members I thought we were recreational anglers.
Daws

Now we have the recreational anglers group in this resource sharing arguement being "deliberately" broken up into small sub groups so that they can't have the weight of numbers to outweight the professional netters. (I.e having their collective will marginalised).

Isn't it "interesting" that the two pro guides who fish the Blackwood take recrerational anglers as their clients, yet they aren't part of the recreational anglers group even tho both of them support the cessation of all netting in the Blackwood??

They also both totally release their catch just like Competition folks and yet they aren't part of the "competiton anglers" group either?

Does anyone spot a semantics / statistics play on words here in that reply from Fisheries?

Clearly - there are only two groups of anglers involved here.

1. Those who support the idea of netting inland waterways

2. Those that don't.

There ARE recreational anglers who NET for bream in the Hardy inlet who aren't opposed to the continuation of pro or recreational netting. :eek:

There are also recreational anglers who ARE opposed to ANY sort of netting of inland waterways.(Save for maybe throwing a handnet to gather livebait or dragging a prawn net or dropping ring nets for crabs). These are ye FAR the greater number.

IMHO it is a deliberate move on behalf of Fisheries WA to try and confuse the issue - and have such a wide array of "resource sharing groups" whose needs they seem to want to satisfy as best they can (i.e. maintain the existing status quo with pro and recreational set netting).

This is just the same sort of hijinks they pulled with the netting question in the West Coast review and it's WHY recreational anglers have so little faith left in Fisheries WA's right to be trusted to manage our fishstocks for the benefit of future generations.

IMHO - the Minister should get to the bottom of whoever in Fisheries drafted that response, and take the appropriate steps to see that such obvious bias within the Department is weeded out post haste - I'm sure they need a Fisheries Dept representative at Widgiemooltha!!! ;) :D

This issue is only as emotive as it is, BECAUSE recreational anglers realise there are those within Fisheires WA going out of their way to frustrate the efforts of recreational anglers to get rid of netting bye both recreational and pro anglers alike in the Hardy inlet.

There simply IS no place for this barbaric method in the 21st century, we no longer harpoon whales and we no longeer club baby fur seals to death.

Estuaries are the nursery areas for all our riverine and inshore fishstocks. Netting inland waterways has clearly reached it's usebye date.

The sustained yeild capacity of the Blackwood river for bream and it's overall health, is under serious threat from land use practices upstream not to mention the pending loss from the catchment of potable (dringking) water to Perth as part of this governments water pumping plans to meet critical water shortages in Perth.

It's simply not feasible any longer to expect the Blackwood to provide freshwater, marron and bream under the existing pressures this river endures - to now take water out of it's catchment for Perth so it can contribute to bream kills up there once it's been contaminated with yet more nutrients and poured into the Swan R, is sheer lunacy.

It is in fact, killing off the Blackwood and it's fishstocks - to take the water to Perth - pollute it with nutrient and then Kill off the Swan Rivers Fishstocks as well bye pouring it into the Swan!.

How dumb is that given the Fishkills the Swan river has experienced in the last week or so?

Why do we have an EPA? Where are they on this? Scientists can who work for the various Govt Departments like Water Authority, Waters & Rivers, Fisheries, CALM etc actually tell us this plan makes sense?

It makes me so angry - the causes of degradation of the Blackwood / Hardy system are OBVIOUS & well diocumented, and the solutions are likewise OBVIOUS. The only thing we need to do to effect the obvious solutions is to weed out the types who deliberately draft repyls like that one Kim Chance has sent out to all of you who have written to him posted above.

These public servants wouldn't be playing these games with OUR resources IF they thought they would be held accountable and might LOSE their precious jobs when the citizens say NO to such games.

Divide and conquer - thats the tactics being played, evident in the reponse posted above, bye dividing recreational anglers up into such small sub groups. IMHO

While they play their games - the fish and our rivers are dieing!

Cheers!

[Bear]

Well said Trouty.

Probably said too much already, as is my habit.

It's a big issue, lots of valid points on both sides, and Fisheries W.A. DO have to walk the tight rope with all their client groups - which include all of those they listed - it's the deliberate marginalisation of the biggest group (recreational anglers) bye breaking them into sub groups that got my goat in that response from the Minister.

It's the same tactic they used to stack the first round of public consultation process meetings on management of the Hardy Inlet.

The "other issues" facing the Blackwood are environmental degradation issues. They IMHO are far more serious even than the threat netting poses. In an ideal world - we'd get rid of the nets botgh recreational and professional AND fix the environmental problems. We all know this isn't an ideal world (in fact far from it!).

Basically - Fisheries are trying to "equitably allocate" a resource about which they have little or no no baseline scientific data as to the rivers sustained yeild capacity for bream and other species. So far, none of the "other agencies" CALM, Waters & Rivers, EPA, Water Authority, Pastoralists & Graziers etc have had ANY input into the resource allocation process.

I have the feeling that if they WERE involved - we would get to know the REAL picture - that the Blackwoods a river still in serious health decline - losing freshwater habitat capable of supporting marron and other native freshwater fishes and macro invertebates, at a measured rate of 1.5 kilometers a year.

The only "freshwater" part of the river left is that between Bridegetown and Warner Glen Bridge. This part remains fresh due to the water entering the Blackwood from tributaries that rise in the forested catchment around Nannup.

Theres perhaps 100 kilometers of river left of the toal 300 odd kilometer length of the Blackwood thats still fresh water.

The area below Warner Glen is subject to salt water influence from tidal movenment at the mouth and the saltwater/freshwater wedge effect. The area above Bridgetown is also too salty to support native freshwater endemic species due to land management practices principally in the wheatbelt.

Even the forested areas streams from around Nannup, that keep the Blackwood (and hence the bream populations downstream) alive are also turning salty due to logging impacts. (Some are naturally salty also due to mineralised salt within their catchments, Dry Brook in the centre of Nannup springs to mind).

The Blackwoods a river in it's death throws basically.

In drought years like the Summer just gone, there was only ONE freshwater stream that kept running, and kept the fresh middle section of the Blackwood alive - Nannup Brook - all the others were bone dry - remember these are classed as perennial streams, they are supposed to run all year but this year they dried up - they included Milyeannup brook, Ellis Creek, St Johns Brook, Red Gully,Macatee brook etc - all bone dry!!!.

The Nannup brook itself was reduced to a trickle - less than a few thousand gallons a day...BUT just enough to keep the native freshwater fish and insect species in the last freshwater middle section of the Blackwod R. alive.

Why did Nannup brook stay running when all the rest went dry?

Simple - it's the only stream on the Blackwood thats spring fed from the northern most occurring patch of Karri Forest in the state, in the escarpement to the East of Nannup. Karri only occurs naturally where sub surface permanent spring water comes to the surface in conjunction with the rich Karri Loam soils. Springs and Karri Loam soil is what governs Karri distribution.

This ONE source of spring water is what has kept the Blackwood R alive all these drought years like 1913, 1987 & now 2003 despite mankinds best attempts to kill it off thru poor landuse and excessive water storage.

The Karris down at Pemberton/Manjimup keep the Warren and Donnelly rivers alive thru drought no problem but the Blacksoods not so lucky, it's catchement is almost totally Jarrah / Marri forest, not Karri - in bad years it's this ONE springfed stream (Nannup Brook) that keeps the Blackwood system alive from this ONE northernmost patch of karri (Karri Gully picnic site on the Nannup / Bridgetown road) that keeps the freshwater flowing into the Blackwood.

The State Government are planning to 'pump' the Yarragidgie aquifier under Nannup/the lower southwest Scott river plain, and are currently spending $6 Million on drilling test holes around the town with drilling plant and contract crews stationed at the Nannup Shires depot in town.

The waters destined for Perth to supplement the dwindling supplies.

When it is pumped - the springs feeding the Karri's in the Escarpement to the East of Nannup, WILL stop running as hence will the Nannup brook in drought years.

Those Magnificent karri's (Karri Gully picnic site on the Nannup / Bridgetown road) are destined to die the first drought year we get after the pumping starts. When this happens and the Nannup Brook dies - so does the Blackwood and all its freshwater ecosystems downstream that have been preserved thru countless droughts throughout the milleniums.

So?

Well - along with the dissapearance of freshwater in the Blackwood River, will go the bream - because they require a certain % of the salty water they live and breed in to be part freshwater (i.e Brackish) for spawning. When that brackish waters gone, to be replaced by straight salt water from upriver in the wheatbelt - so are the bream - for good!!.

Here, we have Fisheries Dept, trying to decide "who gets what share" of a Bream resource that the very State Labor Government is about to make extinct thru destroying the river that keeps it all alive in the first place due to starving the river of it's LAST remaining freshwater source in drought years.

The bream issue IS ecologically important, BUT it pales into insignificance alongside the broader issue of the overall continued health of the Blackwood R. - which is teetering on the brink and will likely render any Bream netting / no netting decision made in the short term, moot anyway!!!

You can't net (or catch and release for that matter) what isn't there in the first place and when the LAST freshwater stream feeding the Blackwood in drought years (Nannup Brook) is dead 'n gone due to pumping the Yarragidgie aquifier under Nannup, you can kiss your Karri's, Springs, Nannup Brook & Blackwood River along with your precous bream, goodbye forever.

I wish you all the best of luck with the Blackwood bream netting issue - please remember what Kev (Full Waders) said - play the issue (netting / declining health of the river) and NOT the man Trevor Price, who is after all - a local like the rest of us, a very decent fellow just trying to make a living down here like the rest of us.

IMHO - Fisheries WA ought offer the man substantially MORE $ than they offered (and paid!) to buy back the latent effort (retired licenses) that they have already secured under the license buyback scheme.

Cheers!

[scott]

Tony I , this is about 10 days late in response, but no the greens did not give much indication about what they were going to do at the next election.

And once again, this is a late response, but those that attacked the greens, at least they are standing up for what they believe in about the environment.

Yes some of them do seem weird, but does that mean you can stereotype all of them.

One of the things they try to get across, is to protect resources for future generations rather than raping the land for initial greed. Which SURELY is part of this whole bream netting debate.


Scott

[TheJigJedi]

I've got nothing agianst the greens. The only problem is, if the greens had all the power, then this web page would be illegal. If ya get my drift. They're over consertive...all forms of fishing would be gone, millions of jobs would be lost in timber, fishing, farming, just about all forms of land exploitation.

But they're there to keep the ballance of one extreme to the other which is what is needed in the government.

[scott]

The only problem is, if the greens had all the power, then this web page would be illegal. If ya get my drift. They're over consertive...all forms of fishing would be gone, millions of jobs would be lost in timber, fishing, farming, just about all forms of land exploitation.

Um, Ok. I would be very interested if you could explain to me how you arrived at those statements.

[TheJigJedi]

How'd I arrive at those statements...? well....first I started writing them, then I wrote them.

[scott]

I didnt ask u how u scribed them, i asked u how u arrived at them