Uni Knot Problems

[adamk]

I seem to be having problems in my Uni Knot.

To attach my leader (Siglon 6Lb and/or 13Lb) to my fireline I initially started off with standard Uni Knot but have always lost my leader as the knot tends to break.

I now switched to a double strand uni knot but still having the same problems. The knot seems to break at the Fireline end.
(What I mean by a double is a double strand of about 15-20cm at the end of the Fireline - I assume this is correct)

It got me thinking when I was out with DaveW last where he actually commented that he had never seen a uni knot tied that way. Now, what could I be doing wrong.

cheers
AdamK

[Mim]

Hi Adam,

If you do a search on this site there has been a few forums on double uni knots. Hopefully that should help

Cheers

Mim

[Stuie_02]

Hi Adam

How many turns are you using in your uni knots?
Is the line slipping off ( faulty knot )
Is the fireline cutting the line in two (not enough on the fireline end)

I could be alot of things is that siglon a flurocarbon? if it is has it been sitting on the shelf the fluro can become brittle.

Cheers
Stuie

[adamk]

mate, I generally do about 9 turns on the fireline and about 4-6 on the mono when doing a standard uni knot

with a double uni knot a would do about 6 to the fireline and about 5 to the leader

As far as the leaders go, they are straight from the shop and tied on. As you would appreciate, I go thru a lot of leader so it doesnt stay on the shelf long at all.

Please explain - How do you make the double. I think this may be the problem. I just fold back the last 20cm or so of fireline then cross it with the leader. Is this correct.

AdamK

[Mim]

JP put this in another forum.
I kept breaking the leader off at the knot. It was because of the balance in the number of twists. The fireline is a smaller diameter than the leader so don't just do 4/5/6 turns on the leader and fireline cos' it will break, you always need a few more turns on the fireline side of the knot. This is due to the fireline half of the knot being smaller and it seems to nick/cut the mono/flouro leader under full load. So if I use 4lb fireline I do 8 turns on it and 4 or 5 on the mono/flouro. Each half of the knot is around the same size. Also finish the knot so that the tags are parallel to the mainline and leader. If the tags finish perpendicular ie: sticking up it will fail under load.
The Double Uni in summary:
-balance the size of the twists on each half of the knot
-lubricate it well and test, it is better breaking in your hand than when your onto a fish
-finish the knot cleanly and don't trim the tags right down until you test it
It is really important when tying the double uni knot to make sure you put even pressure on both the fireline and the mono. After the knot has been finished and before you cut the tags off give it a really good pull. If it is gonna break it will do it then. If it doesn't break at that point it is highly unlikely that it will ever break. I have not had a double uni knot break on me at all. I have lost jig heads ahere they are tied on, but never the knot. I have never needed to double the fireline. I do 7 turns on 4 or 6lb fireline to 5 on 6 or 8lb mono. If using 10lb mono then I would only do 4 turns. As I said the most important thing is to apply even pressure and try to keep the tags in line with the leader or mono, so there is nothing sticking out.

Cheers

Mim

[Stuie_02]

Hi Adam

it sound fine the knot your tying. Can you get some scales from the kitchen ( the ones where youattach the weight to it. Test your knots see what kg or pundage they break at.

What is left on your line after a knot fails

Cheers
Stuie

[adamk]

whats left is the end of the fireline that joins the knot. After the break the knot is still intact.

you may say the fireline is weak or worn out but no, I try it on brand new fireline and give it a great pull aswell and does not break.

anyway this is weird

Adam

[Mim]

Adam,
Have you seen Dave tie a double uni?
Is he doing anything different to you?

I learnt from watching JP, he now gets me to tie most of his double uni's.

Maybe it will help to watch someone else tie a few

Cheers

Mim

[adamk]

off to the tackle shop and get the guys down there to show me on my fireline and my mono

this way I can see exactly what I am doing wrong or not doing

thanks all

Adam

[Stuie_02]

adam

In your last posting you said the knot didnt break you still have fireline and some mono hanging off the end? I am getting confused

Do you lick your knots as the saliva gives the knots better friction so they dont fail under pressure.


Cheers
Stuie

[adamk]

mate, I sure do

It is weird because after the break the knot is still intact.

anyway will keep on trying out

thanks
AdamK

[Becker_11]

Originally posted by adamk


Please explain - How do you make the double. I think this may be the problem. I just fold back the last 20cm or so of fireline then cross it with the leader. Is this correct.

AdamK

I think I understand the problem or at least part of it.
What is meant by a doudle uni knot is 1 uni knot tied in each line joining the 2 lines together giving you 2 uni's together or a double uni.

It doesn't have anything to do with doubling the line ie using 2 strands of the one line.

check out the url I have included this is the method for tying double unis
http://www.fishnet.com.au/library/knotsrigs/doubleuni.html

HTH
Nathaniel

[Rabestca]

G'day Adam

Here is a sight that shows a few different knots with an animated view of each being tied.

http://www.marinews.com/fishing/fk_main.htm


Possibly another knot to try as you are using two different thickness of lines is the albright.


Leave it with ya to see what suits you best and hopefully this helps you out

Regards
Ray G

[wakd]

I'm having a similar problem. On my old rig which has 10lb Fireline and 10lb leader, if I get a snag, it ALWAYS breaks at the leader to jighead, which is great, cause I don't have to retie a leader. On my new setup with 4lb Fireline, and either 10lb mono leader or 3kg FC, it always breaks at the Fireline to leader double uni, which sucks cause I have to retie the leader, and that FC aint cheap. I use 7-8 turns on the Firleline, and 5 on the leader - the knots end up looking pretty even in size. I'm guessing that the Fireline is cutting through the FC, cause I end up with a clean bit of Fireline on the end - no sign of the knot. Might have to try a double in the Fireline - would I need to do a Bimini, or can I just double up the Fireline and tie the double uni?

[fishmania]

adam if you do a bimini twist double in the fire line you should theoreticly have 100% line sthrength with what you tye on its actually not that hard a knot to do and usefull in lots of other fishing situations i then do a double uni knot ie knot to knot use saliva when pulling up knots as mono particularly doesn't like friction heat. good luck david

[rigzz]

Hi,
Just another opinion. I use 4lb F/line and 8lb Siglon and have been happy with the results. I've had the odd failure when testing the knot though and found that, when tying it, you need to try and lay each turn of the knot next to the previous turn and keep it that way as it is tightened up . If the turns within each half of the knot start to cross over each other then I've noticed this significantly weakens the knot. Maybe it focusses the energy into a smaller area or something. I'm using 8 turns of F/line and 6 turns of Siglon.
Cheers,
Rigzz

[panger]

A bimini won't give you 100% strength in fireline like in mono. I think it is something like 70% (of the actual line strenght which is alot more than the labelled line strength) which is alot better than without the double.

[i_wanna_fish]

also how do you guys tighten your fireline? i try using my hands or fingers but i actually cut my hand, sometimes quite deep because it is so thin. how do you guys do it?

[panger]

If you really want to tighten the knot hard wrap the fireline several times around the handle of your pliers. If you wrap the fireline around your hand and do it, it hurts.