Double or no double

[bparker]

My rig usually consists of 4lb Fireline with a short 50 cm bimini twist tied double, to which I attach a 150cm 8lb Vanish leader.

On Saturday morning, one of the many snags I had broke through the double.

At the best of time a bimini twist isn't the easiest thing to tie let alone out in the field. So rather than fish with a double, I simply attached a new leader directly to the mainline with a barrel knot. I pulled a decent fished and suffered a few more snags with this reig, all without a break-off.

My question is, should I aim to fish with a double all the time or is this just over-kill and a simple mainline-to-leader set up is sufficient. What are your thoughts on doubles??

[pw-bream]

I've never used a double in Fireline. Lots of people who visit this site just use a double uni knot (me included).
Personally I use 5 or 6 turns in the mono leader and 8 turns in the Fireline.

[bparker]

My apologies.

[Craig_S]

I'm another just going mailine to leader with a double uni. 4lb fireline to 6lb leader and 5 twists to the leader with 7 on the fireline.

[beefaman]

Mainline to leader, uni knot. Have never had a trouble with knot breaking (touch wood) :D

[bparker]

Thanks for your replies...

It's seems that a uni-knot mainline to leader is the way to go!!

I'm still a complete novice to this 'bream on lures' caper and a lot of what I do I have picked up from books and magazines. Why do so many of them advocate the use of double particularly on fine lines ???

Does a double reduce the likelihood of the main line cutting through the leader (I've read a few posts of people complaining about this particularly using Vanish).

[Richo]

I think its to even the strenght out. MadFish has explained this to me before. Something like doing the double to change your main line to 8pd in strength to match the leader. I myself am still a sinlge uni man, 10-11 twists fireline and 8-9 for the leader. I used to get a few break at the knot when I was using a double, but not anymore.

cheers

richo

[jimi]

Just to be different, I always use a double to tie on the leader. I don't know that making a double makes it match the leader strength as Richo said, 4lb fireline already breaks above 8lb anyway.

I think the main advantage is in having a thicker diameter to tie to the mono. You've also doubled the turns in the uni-knot for no extra effort (eg. doing 8 turns in a uni-knot with a doubled line is like doing 16 turns without using a double).

I think this is like the flurocarbon/mono debate, more of a confidence trick than anything. If you go straight to a leader with no double and you haven't lost a fish because of it, then just keep doing it.

James.

[Tim Richards]

As I am quite new to this Bream Fishing with lures and Sp's I racked Ian Sewells brain at AA's, he suggested the Uni Knot to join to the leader as well. He also suggested doubling the fireline over to tie the Uni Knot but not to tie an actual double in the line, I don't know if that makes sense to you. I have only caught a handful of bream to date without a problem, so I can't say it is tried and proved but by the sounds of what everyone is saying it seems the way to go.
Bundy

I do mine the exact same as Craig S. The double in fireline is to even out the diameters. It doesn't double the strength, as the line is only as strong as its weakest point, that being the double knot, which will prolly be around abouts the lines breaking strain.That's what i think anyway, i guess its up to personal preference. What ever makes you confident is the way to go!


Dave

[AtomicGrant]

I use the double uni knot to but only about 6 turns of mono and 7 turns of fireline. At the moment i use 6pd fireline and 8lb powerline for leader. Have not had a break at the knot yet but have had a break on the uni knot connecting my jigheaad once :( Must ahve been a bad knot.

[pete s]

i used a bimini twist when i fished the melbourne comp...extra security ;), but i dont normally use one.

as for leader to fireline knots, try the twisted leader knot....stronger than a uni knot for connecting mono to fireline. :)

[bubba]

I use the uni knot combo as well but if you want the extra security of a double why not try a Spider Hitch. Almost as strong as the Bimini but can be tied in about 5 seconds :)

[Dave W]

I always use an Improved Albright, with anything under 10lb Fireline getting doubled before the end - not tied into a double, just doubled over.

The Albright is designed to join lines of dissimilar diameters - and it does it well, I very rarely have a failure, and when I do it's normally because I didn't tie it properly :rolleyes:

6 turns of the Fireline up the leader, followed by 5 turns back is just about perfect for 4lb Fireline, I cut the turns down a bit if I'm fishing heavier braid.

It is a nice, flat knot and the tags can be trimmed in very close - stops the 4lb Fireline catching on the leader tag (isn't it a biaaatch when that happens:mad: )

To be honest, I don't know why more people don't use it - it's very easy to tie, and if not done properly will easily fail upon testing, not hang on just enough to come open later on.....

Here's a pic, the only difference is that I do half the turns up the leader and the rest back down:)

Cheers,

[madsurfe]

but now go with the double uni. This rarely fails and with 4lb fireline I do 8-10 twists and 6 twists on the mono, more twists in the fireline because it is a smaller diameter. When I first started tying the double I kept to six twists on each and it fails. Just gotta do more twists on the finer diameter line so there is someting for the knot to pull against.

[Duncan M]

I used to fiddle around with doubles and albrights, these days I go the double uni, 10-12 turns in the fireline and 5 or 6 in the mono, depending on leader strength. Never had this give when it shouldn't, and thats good enough for me.
I've found that albrights are great when tied correctly, but are very bodgy if you don't get them perfect. I lost too many fish (and lures:mad: ) to albrights slipping, yes it was my fault but I can tie a double uni upside down in the dark after 15 cascades, and I know it won't let me down.

Cheers
Duncan

[Kush]

Originally posted by bubba
I use the uni knot combo as well but if you want the extra security of a double why not try a Spider Hitch. Almost as strong as the Bimini but can be tied in about 5 seconds :)

Bubba,
I have always been of the understanding that the spider hitch break at around 60 - 40 % of the lines breaking strain and so Ive kept clear of using it, and used the bimini.

If this aint the case and you used the spider hitch with success please let me know so I can save a heap of time and line

Kush

[pw-bream]

I think it was Bushy who cautioned against the spider hitch with Fireline in the "Bream on lures" book. Unreliable, slipping, etc I think.

[Matt Ireland]

Hey all

I dont know if its just me, but i find a spider hitch a hell of a lot more difficult to tie than a bimini! And i think in the geoff wilson knot book ive got it says that spider hitch does break at about 40 - 60 % of the breaking strain of the line wheras a bimini is supposed to be 100% knot strength because it is not technically a knot its actually a plait (or something like that... cant remember the proper name).

Besides i think biminis are just plain cool...the way they wrap back over themselves has a certain beauty to it or at least to me :) (shut up matt before they send you back to the padded room!!)

matt

I'll buy into this one.

While a Bimini is probably a better knot and comes through the guides better I have seen them fail from time to time.

I tie double uni's and I have never ever, not once in years of fishing have I ever lost a fish at the leader knot..........

[jimi]

Ira, do you mean you tie a double uni with no double? Do you mean that you've seen biminis fail at the bimini knot itself, or where the double joins the leader?

A bimini is a double knot and a uni is a mainline/leader connection so you are not really comparing apples with apples here. Sorry, just a bit confused about what you mean. :confused:

James

[big mumma]

I tend to use the uni - uni knot for my setup which is 6 pound fireline and 10 pound vanish leader.
only difference being that I only do 3 twists for both lines, only time it fails is if i'm heavily snagged, + the less twists the smaller the knot which runs thyrough guides easier.

[TheJigJedi]

I generally use the rule of "if the line breaks b4 the knot pulls through, then use it!"....I use the double uni knot for main line connections...and ya dont need 15 or so twists each side for the knot to hold.

[Angry]

Go with the knot your most confident in. A well tied uni will beat a poorly tied allbright, and vica versa.

I allways tie biminis and improved allbright cominations on my off shore and fly gear, but have had too many fails with that method on my bream tackle.

now use folded fireline (to double the diameter), without a tied double, into a double uni knot.

Can't see the point in tying a double in 4lb fireline (which probably breaks at around 8 lb). then attaching a leader that is probably on par with/or below the actual breaking strain of the main line. Knots are allways the weekest point in a line, so why add more knots.

but again, confidence = fish