So honestly?

[Bassifier]

Are you guys really impressed with flourocarbon lines?
I have fished with both extensivly (about 4yrs) and still head back to quality Mono..
I know, flouro rules right...
:rolleyes: what, cause its more expensive??
But come on, be honest with yourselves... does it really?
I Fish with Joe (Pukka) most of the time and he solely uses flouro..
Our catch rates are on par.
Go get some good mono and put the flouro away for a while..
See if you can spot the difference.... its pretty damn hard! except for the difference imparted on the wallet!:p

[Dave W]

It's too late at night to be opening such a huuuge can of worms :D

I swear by Siglon Flourocarbon, irrelevent of whether the fish notice it more or less because it's a Flouro.

I like the stiffness of it (IMHO a stiff leader is much better than a limp leader for Breamin'), the lack of memory, abrasion resistence and colour of the line itself - I know I can see it in the water, so I'm pretty sure the fish can.

It's a personal thing, I've tried plenty of other lines as leaders, had some shocking results (don't ask me about Super 100 :rolleyes: ) and keep coming back to the Siglon, because I know I can trust it.

As for the price.... it's too bloody much:(, especially when you chew through it like we do - but what price do you put on fishing confidently?

That'll do for now - and the first person to make a 'stiffy' joke gets a smacking :D

Cheers,

[Bassifier]

love a can "o" worms, but worms are pretty limp aint they dave!

[Dave W]

I should've said no stiffy or limp jokes.......:D

[Mick]

I believe if you tell people the sky is purple enough times then they will believe it. Same goes for Flouro, if you keep telling people that it's invisable under water then they will believe it.

As far as I'm concerned its all marketing hype which seems to be fooling people, I can see no visible difference under water betweeen flouro and the same diameter mono or co-polymer line and as far as fish goes, who knows what they see.

I have found flouro to have a lesser knot strength then comparable monos and the price is ridiculous. Unlike Dave I prefer a soft line that tends to move about more and I believe gives a much more natural presentation, but each to their own.

I believe the only thing that makes a line less visable is less line, I bet there are a thousand guys out there who could testify that they have for instance dropped from 10lb leader down to 6lb and have got a heap more hits, but I dont think there are many guys who could honestly say I went from 10lb mono to 10lb flouro (same diameter) and the strike rate improved.

[Bassifier]

I share pretty much the exaxt same thoughts Mick, I believe the limper the better... And that it comes down to diameter most importantly
Thanks for the good replies guys..

[Ravin]

I use mono leaders & prefer a supple one. I have been using Platypus Platinum & I'm very happy with it. I ditched all my fluoro a few months back cause I was not happy with the knot strength at all although I did not try Siglon & I have heard its pretty good as far as knot strength. I have found that while the abrasion resistant property of fluoro may help if you meet a bream armed with 600 grit emery paper when your leader hits sharp oysters etc doesn't matter whether its mono or fluoro its all over.;)

[chris_lemess]

Ok look, without taking price into consideration (I got my Toray fluoro from Japan and it is awesome stuff that cost me next to nothing) YES there is a CLEAR difference between the two - it is impossible to argue otherwise!

Ok, get two traces, one fluoro and one mono. Now cast into a snag holding some decent fish. Double hookup, both fish run into the snag, but both are beaten and brought back to the boat. LOOK at the leaders. The mono? Frayed to death no doubt. Small nicks and notches in the line, necessitating a re-tie. Look at the Fluorocarbon leader... smooth as a baby's bum, just the same as it was when it was cast in there. I've tested this over and over and it's the same every time. I very rarely have to re-tie a fluoro leader because it's worn out, whereas no matter where a mono leader is dragged in difficult country, it is going to come out needing a change!

This is pretty much the sole reason I use the stuff, not because of it being harder to see, or stiffer etc etc. And I'm going to keep using it because I know I lose less fish because of it, and waste less time re-tying.

cheers

[fatman]

I am all for flourocarbon leaders.
I experimented with them while fishing the Shoalhaven. I ran different leaders off the same mainline, using the same bait.
Of the 14 fish caught,-
8 on Flouroflex (7lb) ,
3 on the Black Magic flourocarbon (10lb),
2 on the Penn 10X mono (9lb)
1 on the Maxima mono (6lb)
0 on the Siglon flouro ( 6lb)

All rigs were identical (exept leader material).
I have repeated this experiment a few times with similar results.

FATMAN

[donfish]

Hey Mick the sky is purple.

[Mick]

Hey it is purple:eek: , I'm going out first thing in the morning and buying some Flouro:D

[Bassifier]

Originally posted by chris_lemess
Ok look, without taking price into consideration (I got my Toray fluoro from Japan and it is awesome stuff that cost me next to nothing) YES there is a CLEAR difference between the two - it is impossible to argue otherwise!

Ok, get two traces, one fluoro and one mono. Now cast into a snag holding some decent fish. Double hookup, both fish run into the snag, but both are beaten and brought back to the boat. LOOK at the leaders. The mono? Frayed to death no doubt. Small nicks and notches in the line, necessitating a re-tie. Look at the Fluorocarbon leader... smooth as a baby's bum, just the same as it was when it was cast in there. I've tested this over and over and it's the same every time. I very rarely have to re-tie a fluoro leader because it's worn out, whereas no matter where a mono leader is dragged in difficult country, it is going to come out needing a change!

This is pretty much the sole reason I use the stuff, not because of it being harder to see, or stiffer etc etc. And I'm going to keep using it because I know I lose less fish because of it, and waste less time re-tying.

cheers

The test you suggest is practically impossible, way to many variables....
How can this be proof that flouros are better?
Whats needed is a non sponsored test in a clinical environment!

Unfortunatly cash for comment dictates that this will never happen

:( :D

[chris_lemess]

Hey come on! What I said makes perfect sense! After months of fishing fluorocarbon (don't know why you are making reference to 'cash for comments') out of personal choice, I can safely say that fluorocarbon will come out of snags with less wear and tear than mono. I have learnt this the hard way many a time after listening to people tell me that fluorocarbon is a waste of money because its advantages are minimal. After buying the stuff and using it AND mono, in snaggy country and around mussel encrusted pylons, it is safe to say that I am more confident using fluorocarbon because of its abrasion-resistant properties.

And for your information, I'm not sponsored by the fluorocarbon brand I use, I bought it and paid full price for it, so it truly is out of personal choice that I use the stuff.

Ok?

[bubble]

I have run both Flouro and Mono in my pool (ultra clear) and the difference is very noticible.....flouro is harder to detect. I have never had an issue with knots either. All my knots I finish off with a dab of super-glue and that includes when I am chasing bigger fish offshore. Great when chasing flatties as well, great abrasion resistance.
So flouro it is for me and hang the expense....

[pete s]

i use fluoro solely for its toughness. if the conditions allow it, even if the waters crystal clear, i'll use mono. its a question of being flexible and using what the conditions and your confidence allow.

the casting siglon fluoro is rather nice ;) , $25 for 200 metres isnt expensive in my opinion.

[Bassifier]

Originally posted by chris_lemess
Hey come on! What I said makes perfect sense! After months of fishing fluorocarbon (don't know why you are making reference to 'cash for comments') out of personal choice, I can safely say that fluorocarbon will come out of snags with less wear and tear than mono. I have learnt this the hard way many a time after listening to people tell me that fluorocarbon is a waste of money because its advantages are minimal. After buying the stuff and using it AND mono, in snaggy country and around mussel encrusted pylons, it is safe to say that I am more confident using fluorocarbon because of its abrasion-resistant properties.

And for your information, I'm not sponsored by the fluorocarbon brand I use, I bought it and paid full price for it, so it truly is out of personal choice that I use the stuff.

Ok?

Sorry Chris, the cash for comment line was not meant in reference to you, I have no idea why you would think that I would think you would be sponsored!!:(
It was meant in reference to a proper survey being done... Unfortunately when we see a so called survey done on line breaking strains etc, they always seem to be influenced by the manufacturers and or the magazine/personalities loyalties.
As for your opinions on why you prefer flouros to monos, they are perfectly viable but, not definitive.. as no ones can be..

As was mentioned earlier, confidence is the factor which crops up as the best argument.
What you feel most confident in, is what’s best for you.

I have had a interest in the subject of flouros v mono ever since constantly having a flouro fisher on board the boat.
This gives the variable that is sorely missing in this debate, two fishermen fishing in the same boat, in the same territory using the same baits etc but using different leaders.
After countless hours the difference seems to be so negligible that all it finally boils down to is "Confidence in product used".

But this is the kind of talk that this thread was meant to provoke, good stuff.
Richard.

[Bassifier]

Originally posted by bubble
I have run both Flouro and Mono in my pool (ultra clear) and the difference is very noticible.....flouro is harder to detect. I have never had an issue with knots either. All my knots I finish off with a dab of super-glue and that includes when I am chasing bigger fish offshore. Great when chasing flatties as well, great abrasion resistance.
So flouro it is for me and hang the expense....

The problem relating to this kind of analysis is that it is from a humans perception, not the intended targets.
who knows what a fish sees?

Hey guys.
Just a point i'd like to make about the costs. Flouro definately lasts lnoger due to it's toughness. If you buy 200m, and make 1m leaders, that one spool will last a long time. Now, if you by mono (half the price), you get 400m and 400 leaders. Now if the flouro lasts double the time of mono (thereabouts) the cost is the same!!!:D
having said this, i use mono as i like it's limpness and soft feel (man i sound gay!).
Just a thought.


dave

[Alex]

Could you guys please specify in your replies the brand of mono you use? Only one said he uses Platipus Platinum. Are there any other brands and types of mono you can recommend as tested and trusted?
Thanks,
Alex

[pw-bream]

I've been using Stren MagnaThin.

[jimi]

Penn Powerline is also very good. Cheap, thin, strong, clear and abrasion resistant.

[madsurfe]

Mim and I use Penn Powerline and it seems pretty good. I was using Platil Ghost Flouro and although I was hooking Bream I was losing a lot to the line breaking either at the knot to the jig or the double uni. I won't use it again in competition unless the fish shut down. I had 6 hookups in the Franklin River (Walpole) but didn't land one until I retied a powerline leader, I was really annoyed at losing 4 fish. The Platil Ghost Flouro is rated at 3.4 kg but only 0.20mm dia - This is where it was getting me fish as it is very thin and pretty damn hard to see but just too fragile in rough ground.

[bubba]

While at Swanfish I was fishing with Bear and noticing he was getting alot of broken knots. I also remember him saying he was using Flurocarb line. Not under normal circumstances I would think that perhaps it was the knot. But after 5 or 6 times it makes you wonder.
Im pretty cofident that he knows how to tie a know so I would put it down to the Fluro.
This is only an observation however. I have never used Flurocarb line before.

[jimi]

JP, I tried that platil stuff too and the knots just kept breaking. I won't go back to it in a hurry. However, I've tried other types of fluoro like the Cortland fly stuff which is good (haven't tried siglon yet as I've never seen it in any tackle shops in Perth).

Still for everyday fishing, I trust the powerline and it has provided results just fine for me.

James

[Bear]

Right there Bubba,
Switched to the Penn Powerline now. One other line I do like and need to get more of is the Fenwick fly leader. Just been too lazy to chase it down, though I must admit, I do like the Penn. Haven't had a problem with it yet and lasts well.

[fatman]

I am sticking with Flouroflex Plus and Black Magic flourocarbons. Have not had a failure yet. I used some Vanish, once, less said the better on that stuff . :(
I dunno if the fish see it or not, but after running my own field tests, I will stay with flouro leaders rather than mono.

FATMAN

[Richo]

i`ll say one thing, reading this has made me re-consider my use of Penn powerline.

cheers

[Bassifier]

My tried and tested's are Daiwa Triforce 6, 8, and 10lb and also Daiwa Crystal clear, Maxima perfection's not bad also.
But my usual is Triforce in 6lb.

[blackwater]

I just about use mono the whole time for my bream leaders unless fishing really heavy cover like the docklands. For open water i have 2 spools of platil strong st in 4lb + 6.5lb. It is brown in colour and seems to be great in the areas i fish. Dont even know if it is still made?? If i have to go to flouro carbon i use a line called Riverge grand max which is very fine for it's breaking strain. Also when flyfishing i use only flouro carbon leaders and riverge is the only stuff i will use for tippets so it gets used for the bream spinning as well.

[Lizardboy]

What's wrong with the Vanish? I just bought some (6lb) the other day...was that a mistake?

I have noticed some wear on the leader (little chips and my first impression gained from using it (without reading anything about it other than its low visibility) was that it was less abrasion resistant than mono.

Lizard

[Dave W]

Originally posted by Lizardboy
What's wrong with the Vanish? I just bought some (6lb) the other day...was that a mistake?

I have noticed some wear on the leader (little chips and my first impression gained from using it (without reading anything about it other than its low visibility) was that it was less abrasion resistant than mono.

Lizard

My personal experience with the problems of Vanish really only relate to knot strength.

No matter what I tried, they would fail well before the equivalent Siglon, sometimes looking as if the knot had 'shattered', if I had a close look at the knot, there were fine fractures in it.
It could have been the way I tied it on (with an improved Albright), but like I said, the Siglon (and many other flouro's and mono's) didn't find it a problem.
Maybe you'll have more luck :)

[Duncan M]

I've been using Rio Fluoroflex (in a variety of breaking strains) for a couple of months now and am very impressed with the results, I am catching more fish in tricky areas than ever before. Whether this is due to the advantages of fluorocarbon or a slight refinement in technique I can't say 100%, but I'm happy to keep buying it. At 20 bucks for 22 metres though it aint cheap.
I played around with Platyl Ghost for a bit and would not use it again if you payed me, as far as knots go it was total crap, I ended up chucking it in the bin. Used Berkely Vanish in the 12 and 17lb for a bit (mainly for fly leaders) and had no problems other than the odd bulky knot, easily fixed though. Caught many good fish on it, so no complaints.
The whole fluro vs mono argument is a bit pointless, you're always gonna get a 50/50 split, still it's good to get some debate happening, the world would be a boring place if we all agreed...

Duncan

[Ravin]

I've heard from others they reckon Rio's Flouroflex is pretty good stuff with excellent knot strength. I just ordered some & I'll give it a try when it arrives.

[mike_mad_fisho]

gday
i have tried that vanish a few times and the knot strenth has been a problem aswell , so i just used the platyipus platnium has gret not strenth and a thin diameter.
mivhael

[Alex]

Hey, Pete S
Where did you get your Siglon 200m for $25 from?
Today I went to Armadale Angler and they are selling siglon sinking fluoro leaders for $11 for 30 m (10 lbs the smallest). Trevor (the proprietor) says the trick with the fluorocarbon is it is invinsible to the fish. Is it true?
Does anyone know anything about fluorocarbon properties?
Cheers,
Alex

[pw-bream]

Flourocarbon is meant to have a similar index of refractivity to freshwater. That basically means that fluorocarbon bends light the same amount as freshwater. Hence some claim it is invisible underwater. We don't normally catch our bream in freshwater, we don't normally catch our bream in crystal clear water.
Personally I think flourocarbon isn't something you need to especially worry about. What you want is a leader that is reasonably tough (abrasion resistant) and soft (limp) that is thin in diameter for it's breaking strain. I like clear leaders,but have caught a zillion fish including bream on Maxima Ultragreen fished right to the hook, it is a pale. clear green colour.
Try a range of leader materials including flourocarbon and decide for yourself which you prefer, if the flouro rings your bell then well and good :-)

We've had this debate a couple of times already, have a look back through the old messages or do a search on flouro leader and probably fluro leader and maybe fluoro leader for good luck as there have been some dubious spellings in the past ;-)

[Ravin]

The Rio's Fluoroflex I ordered arrived today & it looks great. I have tested a few knots & had no dramas at all. I got it in 4 pound & its very fine at .15mm or .006inches. I'll see how it performs on the water :D

[pw-bream]

That is the same diameter as the Stren MagnaThin in 4 lb.

[Mad fisho]

Hi all,


This details is what I have found when I visit Japan according to the Flurocarbon line. It basically have the advantage over mono( I assume the Flurocarbon is 100%,I have notice some of the Flurocarbon in the market is not 100% and obviously not made in Japan):

1. It will not absorb water like mono. Therefore it will last longer and stay tough longer.
2. It will sink faster than mono.
( density is mono=1.14, flurocarbon -1.78)
3. It will be more invisible in the water compare to mono due to relective index= 1.42( very close to water) where as normal mono is about 1.53. Water =1.33.

Hope this will help

I am about to bringing in Yamatoyo line from Japan. This company is 40 years old, older than Sunline, Toray and Vilvas. They make very good quality Flurocarbon leader. It has soft and tough surface. Here is the picture of them.

Mad Fisho from Ecogear

[Mad fisho]

Razor Flurocarbon is the softer leader
Super Harris ( image below) is the harder leader.
Both True 100% Flurocarbon

[Pukka]

... no ones mentioned 'stretch' yet??

Some mono's are like elastic, which is one of the reasons I like Fluro'.

I agree, I don't really see any advantage in the visibility of fluro'. A thin line of whatever the material is going to be less visible, I'm sure.
Also, I think mono' does make a better knot due to it's inherent 'softness'.

I do like fluro' for it's stiffness, "as the actress said to the..." oops sorry dave! [:)].
I like the fact that because the line stays straighter than mono there's less bows and loops between me and the lure. I also like the way the stiffer line helps the leader to sink evenly.

I'm always looking for better alternatives in leader material so if anyone knows of a mono' that has the similar qualities to fluro', i.e. very little stretch, good memory, abrasion resistance... let me know.

(That's an honest request btw, not a cynical stab at mono' users [:)])

Pukk'

[Bassifier]

Thats it, you can swim behind the boat from now on!
I may have found the answer with this Lofty's line 5lb = 0.15mm...
or 4lb = 0.12mm, it knots well, but we will see.....

[fatman]

I may have found the answer with this Lofty's line 5lb = 0.15mm...

Rio's Flouoflex Plus 7lb = .007" dia
.........................23lb = .015" dia

nice and thin

FATMAN

[pw-bream]

Crikey! That's thin...
The Maxima people pointed out to me that it is impossible to control the diameter of line to those sort of tolerances with any consistency though and they reckon anyone who says different is kidding themselves.

So really the difference between 0.006 inch and .007 inch is moot, seems to me most quality brand nylon and fluorocarbon monofilament lines these days are all pretty much on a par for diameter, unless the line is targetted at a special characteristic like maximum toughness or abrasion resistance where increased diameter would be an advantage.

The evidence presented by many skilled and successful anglers here suggests that a large range of leader brands and types work well and will take fish in a range of situations.

[Ravin]

I've been using Rio's Flouroflex in 4 pound for the last week & I'm very happy with it. Goes well in the shallow clear water here. I am getting to really like it because it knots a lot better than other fluoros I have tried.